What I am learning from cycling in Denmark

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snorri

Legendary Member
="BigonaBianchi, post: 2400716, member: 3228"]..no way do I want segregation on uk roads!!

Just because you feel confident on 70mph dual carriageways and 60mph NSL A roads, is it not very selfish to oppose segregation and expect newbies to cycling, including children, to simply man up and follow your example?
 
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Flying_Monkey

Flying_Monkey

Recyclist
Location
Odawa
when I'm mixing it with traffic it's actually more laid back & I can concentrate on the dangers around me + producing power.

Certainly I used to be more like this in Britain too. But I'm talking about cycling to work and to the shops; It's just everyday transport not a Darwinian struggle for supremacy here.
 

400bhp

Guru
I used to think I did when I lived in Britain, I even used to get a rush from it - but, as I said, it's only when you aren't having to put up with that any more that you realise that the rush is strongly connected to stress. I'll see what it's like when I get back to Tokyo in the summer - I always say Tokyo as having the excitement of road cycling in London but without the aggression from drivers...

Perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't.

Perhaps cycling in Denmark is akin to me cycling with my wife and little un along some cycle path away from cars. It's fantastic, but it's not really comparable with me commuting or cycling on the road.
 

Pat "5mph"

A kilogrammicaly challenged woman
Moderator
Location
Glasgow
For me the stress comes from having to deal with cyclists dawdling about... when I'm mixing it with traffic it's actually more laid back & I can concentrate on the dangers around me + producing power.
If I need to cycle to the supermarket with my trailer or to the vet with cat in said trailer there should not be dangers around me.
What about young ones cycling to school?
There should be some segregated cycling facilities leading to town or shops to allow folks without a car alternative to effectively use the bike as an everyday mode of transport.
 

snorri

Legendary Member
we were all newbies once
...but many of us had the opportunity to build up experience on quieter roads, and quieter roads are becoming ever more scarce.
Even parents who cycle are unlikely to permit their offspring to cycle to school on dual carriageways or 60mph A roads. Why oppose segregation alongside such roads and deny young people the opportunity to build up their cycling experience?
 

BigonaBianchi

Yes I can, Yes I am, Yes I did...Repeat.
...just so long as no law is passed forcing me to ride on cycle paths.

Personally I would rather campaign for getting idiot drivers off the roads and a change in driver attitudes. Those people are the ones who need to change, not cyclists or responsible motorists.
 
Location
Midlands
...but many of us had the opportunity to build up experience on quieter roads, and quieter roads are becoming ever more scarce.
Even parents who cycle are unlikely to permit their offspring to cycle to school on dual carriageways or 60mph A roads. Why oppose segregation alongside such roads and deny young people the opportunity to build up their cycling experience?

I agree - The big plus to the segregated systems that I see when Im cycling in Holland, Denmark and Germany is the number of young people cycling unsupervised not inconsiderable distances to school or between communities every day

I learnt to cycle in traffic on my 6 mile commute to school at a time when traffic in the UK was relatively low - Im not sure my parents would be so sanguine letting me do it now.
 
Location
Midlands
With the exception of Poland, the UK is the worst country in Europe to cycle in.
IME:smile:

I agree (its my day to agree with Snorri ^_^) however it is relative - I dont find that when cycling in the UK that I feel threatened by motorists in general - I do however find that there is a minority that have no respect for cyclists - something that even in Poland was missing
 

BentMikey

Rider of Seolferwulf
Location
South London
Desire for no Dutch style integrated and all-round solution is effectively condemning all but a few percent of the population to never be able to cycle, and that is terribly sad.

Disliking the Dutch solution is simple ignorance based on experience of the utterly rubbish UK facilities and lack of experience of the general excellence found in the Netherlands. If you spend time riding over there, it is thousands of times better than anything we have, both for nervous cyclists and the fast, confident and risk-loving minority of the population that hang out in places like Cycle-chat. Not only do the Dutch outweigh the UK with normal utility cycling, but their fast roadies and clubs do too.

The Netherlands is nowhere near as segregated as you probably think it is.
 
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Flying_Monkey

Flying_Monkey

Recyclist
Location
Odawa
Desire for no Dutch style integrated and all-round solution is effectively condemning all but a few percent of the population to never be able to cycle, and that is terribly sad.

I agree completely. There seems to be such a self-identification of cyclists as a kind of (misunderstood) sub-culture in the UK that there isn't enough consideration for those who don't cycle (much) but should (more often). Cycling advocacy shouldn't be based on what existing experienced cyclists think is appropriate or necessary for us, but on what would make cycling the normal choice for anyone and everyone for short to moderate distances. If there is a political lesson from Danish cycling for me, that is it.
 

BigonaBianchi

Yes I can, Yes I am, Yes I did...Repeat.
..are we talking about having a cycle sytem like they have in Germany?? The radwegs there are cool...until you get to a town, then you are pushed onto cyclepaths that are slow and dangerous...the drivers still yell at you ..."Radweg!!!" if you dare to venture onto the road...even if you feel its safer on the road.

Nope. I maintain we should keep the right to decide if we wish to ride on the road or not.
 
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