What I am learning from cycling in Denmark

[Sara_H]

If you are, so am I. I love heavy traffic. I found that riding with the segregated cyclists of Amsterdam to be far more hairy than London rush hours.

I'm confident cycling in traffic, but I don't enjoy it and if there's a good off road alternative I'll take it.
When if I'm cycling with my son (10yrs) I find cycling in traffic incredibly stressful. I hate it, and spend alot of time working out the quietest routes.

 

[Electric_Andy]

May I also add to the "cycling infrastructure" debate. There is a long route out of my city with a segregated cycle lane. However, as this lane goes past residential dwellings, all the morons park their cars IN the cycle lane so they don't have to suffer the inconvenience of maneuvering their cars into their sloped driveways. Nothing is done about it. This is exactly why cycling in the UK is such a headache sometimes, and we will not follow in the footsteps of Denmark or the Netherlands until fossil fuels run dry.

 

[Flying Dodo]

I think that we have to be realistic and recognise that in the UK the only way we'll get wide cycle paths (fully segregated or otherwise), is by town and city planners physically making a road lane for cycle use only. Boris's cycling vision for London may achieve that in places, but generally there just isn't the space to do it.

Therefore drivers should be better educated to expect cyclists on the road, and not treat them as objects to be run over with impunity and lack of accountability.

 

[albion]

I'd sugegst its much to do with equality.

Those countries that practice equality, obviously give much regard to cyclists.
Our system claims to be more democratically capitalist which results in 'trickle down rage'.

 

[snorri]

but generally there just isn't the space will to do it..

FTFY.
There is no less space than in towns and cities throughout mainland Europe, it's the way we choose to share it.

 

[Flying Dodo]

FTFY.
There is no less space than in towns and cities throughout mainland Europe, it's the way we choose to share it.

To a certain extent yes, which is why I'd said about taking over a road lane, but bear in mind in many other European cities they put in place the cycling network several decades ago. Here in the UK, we just built buildings and roads. So there'd be quite a bit of destruction of things to build cycle lanes. But yes at the moment in the UK, "car is king" and most things tends to revolve around accommodating 4 wheel users.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Okay, a little update on the question of liability in accidents here. Most people I asked don't seem to know much. But it seems that there is a version of strict liability in place here, at least in terms of who pays up in insurance terms in the case of an accident - because cyclists don't have to be insured, it will always be drivers' insurance companies. But they may sue the cyclist later if they were in the wrong.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Well, it's goodbye to Denmark from me. What I have learned here is the following.

1. Pedestrians, kids and the disabled come first. If there is a pedestrian area, you get off your bike, no argument;
2. Widespread hard separation is a good thing, although it is not necessary for it to be ubiquitous;
3. Narrow streets do not mean cycling provision gets sacrificed or is 'unrealistic' (an argument used by many different groups in the UK);
4. A more relaxed attitude to getting where you're going benefits everyone and there is very little aggression - I have seen no accidents, no arguments between cyclists and drivers, no helmet cams or overprotected cyclists - some wear helmets, some don't and people seem to feel no need to have any more than basic lights at night;
5. Proper cycle parking all over the place is the basis for widespread bike use, especially at train and bus stations;
6. Integrated transport and a sensible attitude to bikes on trains works - of course you can take bike onboard, and yes, there are special carriages with extra space for bikes.

Next stop: Tokyo for a year. It's all a bit different but no less interesting for cycling...

 

[benborp]

There is a very different attitude to utility cycling in Tokyo. Another example of what could never possibly be contemplated here working well enough elsewhere.


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFRahWnA4YM

This video only has the tiniest relevance to cultural differences in cycle commuting. But, so what?

 

[pubrunner]

. . . Ever since I've left the UK three years ago, it's become increasingly clear to me that everyone in the UK is too angry and aggressive, too defensive, not willing enough to give an inch . . . . . . .

^^^ This accurately sums up the situation, in my experience.

I drive a particularly modest car, which has only a 1 litre engine; I drive it pretty sedately too. Every time I drive, I am faced with the drivers FM has described above. As I'm not driving 'flat out', I get 'tail gaters' trying to give me the 'hurry up'; when they do overtake, they then rush on and drive too close to the next 'slow' car. There's so much anger & stress . . . . . . . and to what end ?

 

[asterix]

Amsterdam isn't actually cycle friendly at all. Narrow shared roads littered with parked cars, cobbles, tram tracks and tourists blundering about on foot. Despite this, the place is overrun with cyclists.

Amsterdammers actually hate bicycles. I reached that theory when I saw them clearing a canal. It was literally jammed up with discarded bicycles. Make that 'hate bicycles and canals'.

 

[asterix]

I'd sugegst its much to do with equality.

Those countries that practice equality, obviously give much regard to cyclists.
Our system claims to be more democratically capitalist which results in 'trickle down rage'.

Am reading an interesting book about capitalism, however, since this is not P&L I had better say no more.

 

[CopperBrompton]

German cycleways are not regarded highly by Dutch cyclists, as far as I know. They're better than the UK, a little, but far from the excellent quality found in the Netherlands.

Having recently cycled from Hook of Holland to Esbjerg[1], I agree completely. For me, there was a clear hierarchy in terms of quality of cycle paths:

1. Netherlands - mecca. As near perfect as can be.

2. Denmark - extremely good

3. Germany - far better than the UK, but nowhere near Dutch standard

I'm a London cyclist and very comfortable in traffic, but I'd swap it in a heartbeat for Dutch-standard facilities, even though it would sometimes mean travelling more slowly.

Ben

[1] http://www.benlovejoy.com/cycle/tripreports/northsea/

 

[MikeeV]

I lived in Copenhagen for 3 years in my early twenties and never owned a car, the transport links and cycling civil infrastructure were amasing and we are talking nearly 20 years ago now. Only time I drove over there was a bakery delivery van and found it absolutely horrendous trying to get about with thousands of cyclists, but I learnt to be patient.
I've been to Holland and also cycled, as far as Dutch friends have told me the priority goes Pedestrian-Cyclist-Car. Sounds good, but then cycling yhrough Laren a friend pointed out vehicles entering from side roads on your right with no markings have right of way. Took some getting used to, not a rule I totally understood the logic of. Either way, I felt so much safer cycling in Denmark and the Netherlands. Hoping Uk will eventually catch up one day.

 

[CopperBrompton]

That's the same as in France - Priorite a droite - but it's rare these days in either country. It goes back to ye olde dayes when junctions were unmarked and you needed a simple rule for who went first.