What is this 🤷‍♂️

[Project]

Hi Cyclechat People,

I’m new to this group and to cycling.

I have just bought a old bike not knowing what make or age she is? I would like to find out about the bike and have a project to work on over the winter months.

I have attached some photos to help I hope someone can help with the make and model age ext ??

Frame Number: 4261956

Any information would be a great help.

Thanks

 

[Cycleops]

Whatever it is it looks a bit Neff

Looks like a Carlton with those wrap over rear stays but I’m sure someone will be able to add a bit more.

Hello and to the forum.

 

[midlife]

I thought Raleigh / Carlton but the brazed stop for the rear brake on the seat stays is flat and Carlton were round.

 

[Cycleops]

Looks rather like this Raleigh I found down here a few weeks ago:

Don’t know if you’re aware as you’re new to this cycling lark but the bike has had all its original equipment removed and substituted for modern stuff and converted to a single speed.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Stays and fork crown indicate a Carlton tru-wel steel frame to me.

 

[Project]

Hi , I wax told the 2 badge holes dictate that it is a Sun

 

[Cycleops]

Raleigh had vertical two hole badge holes as well. Perhaps @Spokesmann who is a bit of an expert on Sun can comment.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

You have to remember, that due to decades of industry takeovers and consolidation, the TI Raleigh organisation ended up owning the rights to a dozen or more historic cycling brand names. They used these whenever expedient, in order to supply bikes to different types of retailers, but without treading on the toes of the official Raleigh dealers. So, a non-Raleigh dealer would not be able to obtain Raleigh branded bikes direct from Raleigh to sell, as there might be an official Raleigh dealer at the other end of their town, but they would be able to get supplies of BSA or Sun branded bikes, which were really badge-engineered Raleighs, and sell these instead.
When you encounter those frames with the wrapover stays, they are in reality Carlton designs, no matter which Raleigh family brand badge is found on the head tube.

 

[carpenter]

Could the strange brazed stop be a later (post manufacturing ) addition?

 

[Cycleops]

Highly unlikely, probably just a manufacturing variation. As above whichever way you cut it that’s a Raleigh/Carlton frame. I’ve tagged spokesmann who is the best person to answer your question definitively so hopefully he’ll come up with an answer, or you can start a conversation with him by clicking on his name in my post.

 

[Gravity Aided]

Only other brand I have seen wrap-around seat stays on is Falcon, in my admittedly limited experience. and the forks do not look like those on a Falcon, Also 2 vertical rivets for headbadge

 

[Spokesmann]

Perhaps it was once a Snipe...