What to do in the event of a collision sticky?

[Jezston]

There's been a couple of threads on here recently, and many others over time where the OP has been involved in a collision and hasn't really known what to do. Often it emerges the attending officer (if there was one) hasn't done their job properly (presumably because they weren't a traffic officer), the driver hasn't handed over insurance details and so on and so forth.


Whilst there is disagreement over some of the steps an individual should take in such an incident, there are many aspects which there is no disagreement on and that many people don't know.

Almost everything I know about what I should do should it ever happen to me, I've learned from threads on this forum. I think it would be a very good idea to create a sticky thread containing a step by step list of the basics that everyone can read and remember should it happen to them. From what I've seen from previous threads we have police and traffic officers on this forum, we have lawyers, we have insurance underwriters and all sorts of people who've been involved in such incidents in the past who know the facts and hold useful information and experience from such incidents.

I think it would be a good idea to create a bullet point list of MUST DO things that everyone agrees on, and then have some quoted sections from those in the know adding their views which people can digest and aid them in their decision making process. It might be an idea, if possible, for those claiming to be, say, traffic officers to offer proof in some way (we don't want nutters saying "I'm a lawyer! (actually an unemployed machinist) You should definitely do THIS!"), although this of course could be done confidentially through mods or admin. Although some I think we all know are legit.

So, we'd have a thread looking something like this:

IN THE EVENT OF A COLLISION, MAKE SURE YOU DO THE FOLLOWING:

1. This
2. Then this
3. Definitely do this
4. Make sure you get this information.
5. Keep a record of this that and the other.
6. Speak to these people
7. Chase those people up
8. If this other thing happened then actually do this instead
9. Don't be fobbed off by this
10. It may take this length of time.

I am a police officer working for the Met [VERIFIED] although I'm not a traffic officer, from my experience of such incidents it's really important that you do this that and the other. If however you were unconcious, then make sure you contact this person, and speak to them about this and that.

Also, don't forget that if this happens, then you can do this and that but you can't and shouldn't do this other thing.

Hi, I'm a lawyer specialising in personal injury claims [VERIFIED]. While some may disagree, I think you should do this, this and this and this may increase your chances of getting that.

Also, you may find that if they have done this, then you can do that, which may result in another thing.

From the perspective of the insurance industry, it's useful to know that the insurance company probably isn't trying to do this, but are in fact quite considerate of this and that and indeed this. They are only trying to do this so if you are able to present them with this and that, no matter what this person or organisation says, then you will be more likely to achieve this.

I was knocked off my bike back when, and this happened then this happened and I wasn't very happy about what happened then but then this happened which did make things better but I wish I had done this and that and conversely I wish they had done that and this.

I had to chase this organisation and that body, and I was a bit disappointed that this happened, but then this other thing happened which kind of made it better".

Get the idea?

 

[gaz]

I've been planning a post like this on my blog for a while. More than happy to throw in my 2p

 

[akb]

Very good idea and I expect would be a very useful tool to both newbies and experience commuters alike. Here's hoping the experienced professional take stead!
Anil.

 

[Simba]

Take photographs of injuries and damage to bike/clothing/accessories.
Write down the events on paper.
Get an accident report number from the police.
Try and obtain (if any) witnesses details.
Make sure you get the VRN of the vehicle.

That's my 2p's worth.

 

[jonny jeez]

a dedicated sticky could work...however, we could just as easily add it to the section of the “essential guide” that covers it in section 10 (its 3 pages long so far, but we can add as much as we like.)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12757785/revamped draft.pdf

 

[Jezston]

Here's a proposed list based on what I've read from previous threads. Feel free to ammend!

1. If it is even possible you may have been injured or your bike damaged, i.e. if it's anything more than a tap or you've come off, then call the police, tell them you have been involved in an RTC [correct term?] and you require police to attend.

2. If your injury is even slightly more than a bit of a graze and a bruise, if something hurts in a weird way or your feel dizzy or anything, request an ambulance attend. In fact maybe just call for an ambulance anyway.

3. If your injuries are too severe for you to do either of the above yourself, ask someone else to. It's possible they already have if you are somewhere busy.

4. If possible, get a note of the driver's name, insurance details, and - information about the car including make, model, colour and reg, and a description of the driver, in case they are uninsured or they drive off before the police arrive. Note - if they do leave before police have arrived then they have committed an offence [details?].

5. Get details of any and all witnesses you can. Anyone around, anyone see what happened? Politely ask them for their details so you or the police can contact them if necessary. You may find passers by approach offer to do this anyway. If you are more seriously injured but communicative, try to express to anyone helping you out that you would like them to pass on their details to police - it is possible the attending officer might not collect these details themselves.

6. DO NOT allow the driver to fob you off by saying they don't want insurance involved and they'll just pay cash. Chances are they'll suddenly have a change of heart and that good samaritan facade will slip as soon as they see how big the bill is. GET INSURANCE DETAILS!

After the incident:

7. If you find yourself injured, make a note of any or all injuries you have received, as well as any negative effects this has one your life including personal (inability to do things you enjoy), financial (inability to earn money) and psychological (anxiety, depression, fear of the roads or suchlike) - [too much?]

8. Chase the police as to what they are up to and what is going on. DO NOT get fobbed off by them saying it's something minor and they won't prosecute. If you are injured, if anything has been damaged, and if you weren't doing something stupid yourself then the driver HAS committed an offence and needs to be punished so as to reduce such incidents happening to yourself or anyone else again.

9. Speak to a lawyer like [who's that one on the CTC?]. You don't need to be a CTC member to use their services [correct? is there any advantage in such incidents in being a member of the CTC?]. They will help you with the next steps.

10. Good luck, and keep chasing whoever needs to be chased. Do not accept ANY liability unless you know you did something stupid. Do not get put off by intimidation from their insurer. If the police aren't doing their job report them to their comissioner [correct?] and if that gets nowhere go to the IPCC - although the latter can only be done after an investigation is concluded [correct?]

...

In hindsight I think this could be divided into three lists depending on severity

A. Minor incident that at worse may have resulted in damage to your bicycle but no injury.
B. More severe incident that has resulted in injury and requiring treatment, not to mention a potentially destroyed bike.
C. Serious incident that starts with you waking up in hospital.

 

[ianrauk]

a dedicated sticky could work...however, we could just as easily add it to the section of the “essential guide” that covers it in section 10 (its 3 pages long so far, but we can add as much as we like.)

http://dl.dropbox.co...ped%20draft.pdf

^^^ This.
Be good to have this all under one banner.

 

[Jezston]

a dedicated sticky could work...however, we could just as easily add it to the section of the “essential guide” that covers it in section 10 (its 3 pages long so far, but we can add as much as we like.)

http://dl.dropbox.co...ped%20draft.pdf

Ah, didn't realise there was a section in there. Just had a read and it covers most of the bases, but could certainly be expanded upon.

Certainly if done so people can be directed towards that if such a thing occurs.

 

[jonny jeez]

Ah, didn't realise there was a section in there. Just had a read and it covers most of the bases, but could certainly be expanded upon.

Certainly if done so people can be directed towards that if such a thing occurs.

Jezston...I've got to shoot out to a meeting, if you have the time, perhaps see if you can merge your thoughts and those already in the guide. I add the raw text below.

I can then update the document.

Having a sticky "link" is a tricky one as it could be argued that all the contents deserve a seperate sticky link...so there would be a lot. I do take on board the fact that many people do ask about this but then its also fair to say that they ask about bike choices, helments, road skills red lights rainwear etc etc...

Personally I'd like the guide to have a greater readership/visibility, as its clear that not all newcommers spot it before seeking advice...I just dont how how to acheive that.

If you are pushed for time, I can take a look at it later this week.

PM me if you dont want this to hijack your thread


______________________

How best to protect yourself physically during (and legally after) a collision.

You will never need to use this section, but in case you are interested, or are conducting some research, here are a few suggestions.

In the event of a collision,

Try and protect your “core body” (where all your major organs live) and your head. If you have time roll yourself into a ball as much as possible, bringing up your knees (to protect your abdomen and chest) and elbows (to protect your head and face).

If you fall in the wet, and are not in any immediate danger of colliding with any other objects, then let yourself slide and don’t try to stop the momentum (by grabbing or trying to stand as you slide)

Once settled, do not try to immediately stand up (your instinct will be to do so and try to carry on, as pride and our survival instinct cuts in) try to stay still and clam whilst you asses if any injury has occurred. Only get up if it is dangerous to stay put

Don’t worry about your bike...its replaceable.

If injured, get help. Don’t try to sort everything out yourself. Bystanders are generally very helpful in the event of a collision.

If you are conscious and able, then collect witness details

Don't get into a row with those involved in the collision, this will achieve NOTHING

Don't settle with the other party at the scene as this will compromise any proceeding compensation or legal claim for costs.

Take NOTHING they say for granted, in front of a crowd and without the time to talk to friends and partners, people will make all sorts of kind offers that they will later retract (you will want to believe that they are different, but it is best to assume they are not)

After a collision


Get to hospital to have your injuries assessed and RECORDED.

Take photographs of all injuries (especially a few days later as the bruises etc are starting to develop)

Take your bike (unless it has been collected as evidence by the police) to a bike shop and have ALL damage assessed and proceed to repair. Even slight impacts can seriously damage the integrity of your bike’s frame and major components...trust me you don't want your bars, or frame snapping whilst you ride.

Process a legal/Insurance claim.

Keep receipts for all costs incurred (travel to work, medical etc)

Take it easy and get better, prepare yourself for a long legal debate and settlement of costs.


Insurance and legal advice

Many companies specialise in cycle related insurance and legal support.

In addition, membership of some cycle organisations entitles you to both.

Organisations such as;

http://www.ctc.org.uk/

CTC membership entitles you to some of the best legal advice and support In the country and comes highly recommended by the Cycle chat commuters
Sometimes, even retrospective membership can be arranged to cover your claim. Speak to them as soon as possible or consider joining their organisation now (to be properly prepared)



Alternatively, CTC usually use intermediary legal firms to settle disputes, there is nothing stopping you going direct to them. Generally CTC use;

Russell Jones Walker
www.rjw.co.uk

Comment from Bollo
“RJW and his insurers will agree to an independent medical assessment. This will usually be carried out by a private doctor who specialises in injury reports for insurance claims. This assessment IS NOT performed primarily to treat you - its to let both parties know about the damage. RJW will then use it as the basis to calculate the 'cost' of your injuries to claim from his insurance. His insurers will dispute that cost and then the horse-trading continues. A GP report may be asked for, but my understanding is that most injury claims are dealt with as I've described to ensure impartiality. A GP is 'your' GP after all. The insurance doctor is unlikely to give you any treatment advice. It's not RJW's job to get you treated, although it is possible to claim reasonable costs for treatment as part of any settlement.

You'll also be asked to sign a contract with RJW (or any other solicitor for that matter). Don't be alarmed - RJW are your friends, its just that they're your paid friends. Their contract is worth a read because there are some things in there that may matter to you. For example, you may be liable in some very limited circumstances to pay for RJW's costs. From what I remember, they can claim costs if you turn down what they consider a reasonable offer and then subsequently lose a court case.

The best advice I can give about the whole process is to treat it like a business negotiation rather than a crusade for justice. Your enemy is his insurance company - they'll ask the driver to give a statement but its possible he'll hear nothing more until the settlement. He'll then be reminded again when his premiums are 'adjusted'.

 

[wiggydiggy]

Excellent idea OP


Based on two minor accidents I've had....I can add to this:

When you've had an accident/come off your bike I would:

1) Dont move immediately if your conscious unless immediate danger
2) Take a breath, then sit/stand up slowly and untangle yourself from bike if needed
3) Take your bike off the road if its on one and stand on pavement
4) Pat yourself down, take a drink if you have one
5) Check your bike, but dont rush to carry on, just take your time

And to add if you've hit a pedestrian

6) Don't be annoyed (or try not to show it) regardless of who's fault it is
7) Wait for the ped to get up, dont just ride off
8) Dont apportion blame at the scene, concentrate on making sure you are both ok
9) If they ask for details, give them and ask for theirs

-------------------------------------

Dont know if thats 100% right, its just what I did and it seemed to work ok..... The 1st one I hit a curb and fell off, just embaressment, the 2nd I hit a ped that stepped out. Both minor in the scheme of things but needed to be treated with care.

 

[deckertim]

If you have a camera, take photos of the scene and any damage.

 

[CopperCyclist]

I'm not a traffic officer, but am a police officer. I can't think of any way to verify what I say that retains my anonimity, so I'll skip that bit - if you don't want to believe me I don't mind!

Heres my 2p worth for the legal obligations placed on a driver (of a motor vehicle, NOT a cycle) when involved in a collision, regardless of fault.

Please note I am ignoring careless/dangerous driving offences for the purposes of this post. These are traffic offences, and if you feel they have been committed of course you can report the matter.

If a non injury and non damage collision:
No one has any responsiblities. You don't have to stop, you don't have to exchange details. Of course you SHOULD stop (how would you know no injury/damage if you don't?) but there is no legal requirement to do so. So, a car passes you too close, causing you to fall off but causes no damage to you, your bike, or anyone else, they don't need to stop and swop details.

If non injury but damage to any OTHER vehicle except the drivers:
The driver must stop, and inform you of the name and address of the registered owner of the vehicle, and their name and address. They do not legally HAVE to give you phone numbers or insurance details, but most will if asked.

If injury is caused:
The driver must stop and inform you of the name and address of the registered owner of the vehicle, of their name and address, and their insurance details. They do not legally HAVE to give you their phone number, but most will.

We recommend you to call the police in an injury RTC, but it is not a legal requirement to do so.

You should call the police if a driver does not comply with any of the above rules, or if you have reason to doubt the details that they are giving you.

If people are interested, a vehicle is considered involved in an accident, if the collision happened due to its presence on the road. It doesn't have to be the colliding vehicle, and the above responsibilities will apply. (i.e. if a car exits a junction, causing another vehicle to swerve into you to avoid a collision, then both cars are 'involved')