What to do with - suspected - self-seeded apple trees in my lawn?

[Bonefish Blues]

Your collecting too early, you need to kill the grey squirrels to enable the nuts to ripen.

Any squirrel preservation tips?

 

[Reynard]

Ahh, @Reynard, when I semi-retire (I'll probably never be able to afford to retire completely) I'll have time to do all those food processing things you do 😻

Awh, *HUGS*

I will admit it's something of a hobby. Plus, if I need a little gift, then a jar of something home made tends to fit the bill. And it's far more personal than trotting off to Tesco to buy a box of biscuits or chocolates.

I foraged some plums this morning - wasn't sure if they were bullaces or damsons. Used a small quantity to make a test batch of jam; colour was a really rich purple, got a really great set, but the end result was just a little bit *too* sharp - which lends me to think they are indeed bullaces. Sometimes it's hard to tell. That said, the overall flavour was lovely (tested on hot buttered toast), so I shall go back and pick some more, but will combine them in a 2:1 ratio with greengages to add some additional sweetness.

I still have some dessert plums, but they're earmarked for a) another crumble and b) for a Zwetschenkuchen!

 

[Reynard]

Any squirrel preservation tips?

Roasted?

 

[Gillstay]

Taxidermy

 

[wafter]

if you need any preserving recipes / methods, just give me a yell.



Ah. A fellow Yellow Stickerer! I had good pickings in Waitrose here in Ely on Tuesday. A tray of organic lamb mince marked down from £7.59 to £2.59. Half got frozen, the other half was turned into lamb koftas for yesterday's supper. After Madam Lexi got her share, of course. Also a tray of five cooked jerk chicken thighs marked down from £4.25 to £1.49 (one thigh made a very nice chicken salad filling for a couple of wraps this evening), a packet of mange tout for 59p, four sub rolls for 69p and a pack with four pains au chocolat for 89p. That was after picking up 2kg of yellow lentils / split peas for £2.50 and a 5kg sack of Thai jasmine rice for £5.60 on YS in Tesco earlier in the afternoon.

Besides, Waitrose here is now the only place in town that has a wet fish counter other than the van that turns up on the market on a Thursday. The latter is spendy and doesn't have much choice. If you're not fussy, Waitrose always has some good bargains on fish towards the end of the day.



Oddly, you don't see too many folks out picking blackberries here outside of places easily accessible by car - and I live right out in the countryside. I'm lucky though, as there's a stand of canes just across the road from me. North-facing, so not particularly sweet, but the fruit are very big, so suspect an escaped garden cultivar rather than the pure wild brambles. That said, there's loads of good places to pick out here, so I'm spoiled for choice.

The village where I live also has a community orchard, which is a lovely resource. It's not without its problems though, as there is a lot of wastage of fruit, but then there's also the issue of people coming from outside the parish with ladders and crates and stripping the trees. I do avail myself of the fruit, but largely concentrate on the fruit that most won't pick so that it *doesn't* get wasted.

Mind you, I make jams, jellies, chutneys etc (I'm a champion preserve maker!), as well as turning stuff into puddings, pies and crumbles. Oh, and I'm rather partial to apple fritters!

Foraging is one of my favourite things to do at this time of year.

I will freeze blackberries so that I can make jam once my stored cooking apples (I also have a big bramley tree in my garden) start looking a bit tired.

Cheers!

On paper I'm all over the sustainable / natural lifestyle; however unfortunately in practice limitations to productivity, time and facilities put a proper dampener on this.

Great work with the supermarket haul! I imagine you're very well placed to make use of what's on offer with your skills and interests; conversely I'm pretty much limited to stuff I can just chuck in the oven, cold meats, fruit and veg, decent quality ready meals for the old dear..

Currently this is still working well for me (aided and abetted by the freezer) although it does generate a lot of plastic waste, which is a source of ongoing guilt. I'm hoping that as the kitchen becomes better-appointed and I become more settled I might be able to cook more from scratch and reduce the plastic churn somewhat.

Recent wins include some nice pastrami (IIRC about 80p down from about £4), some slightly-allergy-provoking bite-size Chorizo (68p down from about £2.80/100g) and a 10p punnet of strawberries from Co-Op (although a few had already turned to mush and the dozy till-jockey failed to give me any change so they actually cost 20p.. scored three punnets of posh co-op raspberries for 80p each earlier too; which was less than a third of what they should have been

I am intrigued to knock up a spreadsheet for a sample month of spending to see how much all this actually saves, as it feels substantial

Sounds like you're well-sorted for blackberries (amongst other things!) when do you reckon the season is likely to end? It seems the yields aren't as good as they were a few weeks ago and there are a lot of obviously "over" plants about, however it looks like many have a second round maturing - do they typically fruit in "instalments" rather than continuously during the fruiting season?

Funnily enough it's perhaps similar around here too - the homestead is a lot more rural but there appear to be fewer blackberries about, while there are loads around me in Oxford.

Good work with the orchard; sounds like the typical situation of a few selfish few spoiling it for the many. Sounds like a really nice community asset to have though; and stuff like this reminds me that not all of the UK is stricken with the same self-defeating, hyper-progressiveness that seems to leech out from London into the SE.

If I can get some more blackberries I'll look to freeze some; however it doesn't take me long to get through a jar and my freezer space is limited so I'm under no illusion that I'll be able to stash enough to see me through the winter.

Really I'm a bit torn - the homestead gives me what I want in a property - space, seclusion, ability to carry out practical tasks.. while the flat gives me the location I want but with extremely limited ability to do much. Mustn't grumble though - I remain very happy to have escaped

Any squirrel preservation tips?

Jerky with a side-order of slippers-with-faces?


So... brief garden update. The apple trees are in full swing now; a week or so's windfall's probably constituting about three-four shoeboxes worth across both.

I've tried to be more pro-active with these and a couple of days ago spent some time first collecting, then sorting the apples into a few to keep for myself / my mum and the rest to put out the front for others. They continue to go at a fair rate; so far nothing I've put outside has lasted more than 24hrs and I've spotted to odd few folks taking interest and making off with a few, which brings a smile to the face

Sadly it seems that nearly all of the apples are blighted by coddling moth larvae (as identified by @annedonnelly - thanks again!) however it's not the end of the world to quarter, core and wash them before consumption and the novelty of being provided with free food on my doorstep is yet to wear off

The hazelnuts I've collected seem to be ripening in a plastic punnet on my windowsill; however I've cracked the odd one or two open and they all seem to be empty inside


I seem to have had a lucky escape with the garden - the grass is long but pretty sparse and I doubt will grow much more now; so perhaps I can get away with having to do much with it before the winter.

I've done my homework and have my eye on a nice pair of secateurs; which I think I'll indulge myself with now I've got my new credit card up and running. The hawthorn bush has got a bit out of hand so that wants some attention to bring back some shape, while I'd like to cut back (another hawthorn?) tree at the bottom of the garden plus some of the plum-adjacent trees to raise their canopies to above head-height and maximise available space.

I'm also considering doing this with the apple trees, although I hear trimming apple trees is a bit of a dark art and don't want to cock anything up; while I'm aware that this would also reduce the amount of fruit within snaffling distance. Is there a convention to be followed here? I've read that the best time to trim apple trees is November; rightly or wrongly..

The cookers tree is a lot taller and more slender with fewer low-hanging branches so this seems less problematic to trim back, while the one with the eaters is a lot more bell-shaped and I imagine could look quite nice if left to grow almost down to the floor; although this would obviously make collecting windfalls a bit problematic if one had to climb inside..

Finally there's a tall pine halfway down the garden with a single branch awkwardly sticking out into the space I'd like to occupy with a shed, so I'd like to have this off and think I should be able to do this with a pruning saw - pointers or cautions from the more learned much appreciated! This tree is also pretty heavily logged with ivy - would it be wise to sever this near the base? Rightly or wrongly it always seems that ivy tends to be present on dead / dying trees; how much it's contributing to this I'm not sure.

I think that's all for now

 

[Pat "5mph"]

my freezer space is limited

A small under counter or chest freezer is a very handy thing to have.
Mine is currently in my spare room because after I got the new kitchen it doesn't fit anymore, but I'm keeping it!
You can get them second hand in good conditions often from folks (like me lol) that have fitted a new kitchen or that have upgraded.
Do you have a local barter page on FB?
White goods often appear on mine.
Even if you don't have room in the kitchen, put it elsewhere, a funky table cloth on top, nobody will notice!

I've read that the best time to trim apple trees is November; rightly or wrongly..

It's when the tree is dormant, no leaves left.
Plenty of info on YouTube, watch a few videos until winter comes.
Apple and pear trees get pruned when dormant, stone fruit trees (plums, cherries) in summer.
The suckers you can remove anytime of the year from all fruit trees.

Finally there's a tall pine halfway down the garden with a single branch awkwardly sticking out into the space I'd like to occupy with a shed, so I'd like to have this off and think I should be able to do this with a pruning saw -

Go for it by any means, even a wood saw will do.

 

[wafter]

A small under counter or chest freezer is a very handy thing to have.
Mine is currently in my spare room because after I got the new kitchen it doesn't fit anymore, but I'm keeping it!
You can get them second hand in good conditions often from folks (like me lol) that have fitted a new kitchen or that have upgraded.
Do you have a local barter page on FB?
White goods often appear on mine.
Even if you don't have room in the kitchen, put it elsewhere, a funky table cloth on top, nobody will notice!

It's when the tree is dormant, no leaves left.
Plenty of info on YouTube, watch a few videos until winter comes.
Apple and pear trees get pruned when dormant, stone fruit trees (plums, cherries) in summer.
The suckers you can remove anytime of the year from all fruit trees.

Go for it by any means, even a wood saw will do.

Brilliant, thanks - that all seems to make sense

I'm not sure you're quite grasping how small my flat is, though - but I appreciate the suggestion!

 

[Reynard]

My mum trained in a professional kitchen, and she taught my how to cook. And my dad, who was involved in military food supply, taught me how to shop. So I'm luckier than most in that respect. Plus I've accumulated a fairly sizeable collection of cookbooks - I'm equally happy using a recipe from the 1930s (as I did yesterday for an apple pie) as I am using something from Nigella or the Hairy Bikers.

The average food spend (groceries only) for a one person household is roughly £35 per week. Two of us here, I spend about £40-ish per week on groceries compared to the average of £65. All food for two people (includes alcohol and eating out, which we do neither) according to the ONS is £95 for two people. But I take advantage of good offers, stickers etc, and cooking does make a big difference.

I spent £63 in Tesco yesterday, but that included a birthday card, cat treats (4 sheets of meaty sticks and a large bag of Dreamies), a sudoku book, two bottles of bubble bath and a large roll of cling film. So knock £20 off that. My £43 got me two and a half kilos of yellow sticker bacon, an organic lamb leg (also on YS, and will probably be our Christmas dinner), plus the usual bread, milk, butter, cheese and a bunch of cupboard staples. No fruit or veg except for some YS potatoes, as my own tomatoes are coming on, I've still got stuff that wants using from last week, and I'm up to my eyeballs in greengages, blackberries and apples, along with some fruit I bought previous week that also needs using. We are almost zero waste when it comes to food, here.

Our village's community orchard is a lovely space to have - it's also part of a wider nature reserve with some lovely walks and good opportunities for foraging. Sometimes it's just nice to bum park on a bench and just chill.

Regarding that pine tree... Get some telescopic loppers (they'll be useful for other stuff too), and take off all the small stuff first. Loppers will cut stuff up to about an inch and a half or so in diameter. It'll make the end of the branch less heavy, and so less likely to trap your saw when working at the trunk end.

 

[PaulSB]

@wafter re pruning apple, and most other fruit, trees yes November/December when the trees are fully dormant. You have mature trees and you're correct pruning is something of a dark art. Be aware mature trees can respond to pruning, and other factors, by producing water sprouts or shoots. These are very strong, vigorous shoots which develop from dormant buds. They are useless for fruit production though can be trained to produce fruiting spurs. Apple trees are very prone to producing watershoots.

They can be cut out at anytime and I guess this is what @Pat 5mph is referring to when she mentioned suckers, although in my book a sucker grows from the base or roots of the plant.

It's worth reading about before you contemplate pruning, especially if its a heavy prune. My experience is once a mature apple starts to produce watershoots it doesn't stop. I have two apples in this state. I usually prune out all the watershoots in August to help the fruit mature and reduce stress on the plant.

Apples and pears: managing watershoots / RHS Gardening https://share.google/cLNY7MlAljgC3lKyI

 

[Pat "5mph"]

They can be cut out at anytime and I guess this is what @Pat 5mph is referring to when she mentioned suckers, although in my book a sucker grows from the base or roots of the plant.

I meant suckers, the ones at the base of the tree under, the root stock

 

[wafter]

My mum trained in a professional kitchen, and she taught my how to cook. And my dad, who was involved in military food supply, taught me how to shop. So I'm luckier than most in that respect. Plus I've accumulated a fairly sizeable collection of cookbooks - I'm equally happy using a recipe from the 1930s (as I did yesterday for an apple pie) as I am using something from Nigella or the Hairy Bikers.

The average food spend (groceries only) for a one person household is roughly £35 per week. Two of us here, I spend about £40-ish per week on groceries compared to the average of £65. All food for two people (includes alcohol and eating out, which we do neither) according to the ONS is £95 for two people. But I take advantage of good offers, stickers etc, and cooking does make a big difference.

I spent £63 in Tesco yesterday, but that included a birthday card, cat treats (4 sheets of meaty sticks and a large bag of Dreamies), a sudoku book, two bottles of bubble bath and a large roll of cling film. So knock £20 off that. My £43 got me two and a half kilos of yellow sticker bacon, an organic lamb leg (also on YS, and will probably be our Christmas dinner), plus the usual bread, milk, butter, cheese and a bunch of cupboard staples. No fruit or veg except for some YS potatoes, as my own tomatoes are coming on, I've still got stuff that wants using from last week, and I'm up to my eyeballs in greengages, blackberries and apples, along with some fruit I bought previous week that also needs using. We are almost zero waste when it comes to food, here.

Our village's community orchard is a lovely space to have - it's also part of a wider nature reserve with some lovely walks and good opportunities for foraging. Sometimes it's just nice to bum park on a bench and just chill.

Regarding that pine tree... Get some telescopic loppers (they'll be useful for other stuff too), and take off all the small stuff first. Loppers will cut stuff up to about an inch and a half or so in diameter. It'll make the end of the branch less heavy, and so less likely to trap your saw when working at the trunk end.

Thanks - sounds like you had a great start in life for self-sufficiency

That said my mum's pretty good at that sort of stuff, I've just struggled to follow her example.

Also sounds like you're really nailing the reduced stuff; sadly I lack the capacity to make use of the most cost-effective stuff as it usually requires further processing / storage. I did think of you the other week when I clocked big chunks of unsliced ham and turkey on the deli counter for about a quarter of what they should have been.


That cost analysis is a bit of an eye-opener - I reckon I spend about £70-80 per week on food, which is probably 20-30% less than I would be spending if I wasn't such a bargain-ferret (not that I could justify buying a lot of what I get reduced at full price). I think this is probably partially because I buy mainly (semi) processed stuff (such as breaded chicken breasts instead of the whole bird / "less desireable" bits), while I've recently been relatively light on the carbs which are typically a cheap and filling staple. I think I'm definitely going to start sniffing around baked potatos again soon..

Also I refuse to buy low quality stuff (especially meat) and usually have some pricey little indulgence like the £7 pistachios that are gone in a week or less, or the £3 cashews and peanuts that disappear in one sitting (much to the dismay of my alleries)..

I make no apologies for eating well since you literally are what you eat and I've scoffed my fair share of rubbish in the past.

I envy you home-grown stuff and would love to grow some of my own veg in the garden i I ever get the opportunity - some strawberries and raspberries would be most welcome too.

Thanks for your thoughts about the pine tree - hopefully now everything else has died back it should be a bit easier to assess; while I think the only problematic branch is at a pretty accessible height

@wafter re pruning apple, and most other fruit, trees yes November/December when the trees are fully dormant. You have mature trees and you're correct pruning is something of a dark art. Be aware mature trees can respond to pruning, and other factors, by producing water sprouts or shoots. These are very strong, vigorous shoots which develop from dormant buds. They are useless for fruit production though can be trained to produce fruiting spurs. Apple trees are very prone to producing watershoots.

They can be cut out at anytime and I guess this is what @Pat 5mph is referring to when she mentioned suckers, although in my book a sucker grows from the base or roots of the plant.

It's worth reading about before you contemplate pruning, especially if its a heavy prune. My experience is once a mature apple starts to produce watershoots it doesn't stop. I have two apples in this state. I usually prune out all the watershoots in August to help the fruit mature and reduce stress on the plant.

Apples and pears: managing watershoots / RHS Gardening https://share.google/cLNY7MlAljgC3lKyI

Thanks - seems less-than-straightforward but I'd like to get something done to tidy the smaller tree up. While branches hanging down to the ground look very nice, in reality it makes harvesting the fruit a pain and I'm sic of receiving twigs to the eye / apples to the face.

I'll take a look at the link when I get a moment


So, mercifully it seems that the fruiting season has nearly come to an end. I'm sure this is all stuff seasoned apple custodians already know, however it's been a bit of a journey of discovery for me so I'll share what I've learned, for what that's worth.

As the season's progressed the fruits have gotten larger and turned increasingly from green to red; becoming increasingly sweet (which personally I don't like so much). The amount of viable fruits have also increased thanks to a reduction in moth damage - presumably because their lifecycle is optimal when they emerge earlier in the year rather than into the autumn chill.

I've got into a routine of checking the windfalls weekly; sorting into perfect (kept), imperfect (bruised, minor moth damage or abrasions - which go out the front) or write-offs (rotten / damaged / moth-riddled) which go in the compost bin.

The bin is rotting down well and the little placcy door has relented, allowing its mulched contents to spill out onto the garden. When I arrived I think it was filled exclusively with grass, which the worms seemed to love. I'm not sure whether they're as keen on the apples; hopefully I've not made it too acidic for them.. at least they hopefully have a route of egress should they so desire.

The recent winds brought down the bulk of the remaining apples and I now have maybe 25kg stored in the flat.. which I'm never going to get through. I think I need to go through them again, removing any bruised ones I've missed (as I've since learned that this quickly turns to rot) and putting more out the front.

While I welcome the free fruit and certainly don't want it to go to waste, it's been time-consuming to manage it. It has been rewarding to spot folks collecting what I've left out the front - a few days ago a young mother and daughter enthusiastically sifting through them; a passing girl getting excited about discovering them and as I've sat here typing this looking out the window, an elderly lady taking the time to select and snaffle 3-4 of the big cookers I'd put out earlier

Can anyone tell me how long I should expect the stored apples to keep please? Some I boxed up maybe a month ago still seem OK, if softening slightly and I think turning more sugary with the passage of time.. I'm thinking of stuffing these out the front and just keeping the other box for now (which is a mere 18kg) then maybe leaving small batches of these out the front if I don't eat them.

I've taken various photos of proceedings over the year but have so far failed to post any, so here are a few for the apple-fanciers

Some of the "eaters" earlier in the year:

A haul from earlier in the year - those separated in the placcy box to the right are those without obvious moth damage; so it was really pretty rampant with maybe 75% of fruit affected..

The smaller tree a bit later in the year, note the growth at its base that was the initial subject of this thread. These haven't grown significantly; maybe they'll die off over the winter..?

Fruits on the same tree a bit later in the year; and a lot more red:

Also spotted these adding a conspicuous splash of colour to one corner of the garden - can anyone tell me what they are?

 

[Pat "5mph"]

usually have some pricey little indulgence like the £7 pistachios that are gone in a week or less, or the £3 cashews and peanuts that disappear in one sitting (much to the dismay of my alleries)..

Bags of 200g of cashews are £1.75 in Aldi, I'm pretty sure the pistachios are similar priced.

The smaller tree a bit later in the year, note the growth at its base that was the initial subject of this thread. These haven't grown significantly; maybe they'll die off over the winter..?

They won't die off, you need to cut them right down to under the ground, if you can't uproot them.
On saying that, your tree is fruiting pretty well even with the suckers, but you don't want those, they'll just take away nutrients from the main tree.
I have an apple tree producing fruits that look like yours, it's a much younger tree.
If you leave the apples to go red, like they are now, they taste better.
In September the skins of the apples were quite hard to chew, now they are perfect.

 

[wafter]

Bags of 200g of cashews are £1.75 in Aldi, I'm pretty sure the pistachios are similar priced.

They won't die off, you need to cut them right down to under the ground, if you can't uproot them.
On saying that, your tree is fruiting pretty well even with the suckers, but you don't want those, they'll just take away nutrients from the main tree.
I have an apple tree producing fruits that look like yours, it's a much younger tree.
If you leave the apples to go red, like they are now, they taste better.
In September the skins of the apples were quite hard to chew, now they are perfect.

Thanks - there's an Aldi just up the road that I used to frequent regularly for select items; however this ultimately boiled down to just being gin and plain chocolate; both of which I've since given up. I'll take a look when I'm next in the vicinity

Ta for the advice on the tree - in that case I suppose I'd best get out there with the secateurs... once I've bought some.

The tree is apparently fruiting very well - tbh I'd be very happy if it were doing so a bit less vigerously!

Personally I think I prefer the earlier, greener apples as they're not so sweet and have a more tarte flavour. That said I've exercised little choice in the matter as all I've been harvesting are the windfalls it chucks on the ground and demands I collect..

It'll be interesting to see how the apples change with storage (I suspect sweeter and softer) although I think I'll have to move the bulk of them on as it's unlikely I'll consume around one third of my own body weight in fruit

EDIT: Just remember I spotted another couple of folks snaffling the apples left out the front - the nicest being a bloke who was clearly out for a decent walk with all the gear; taking a moment to select one before shining it up on his shirt and taking a bite as he continued on his way.

Now I have the luxury of a chair from which I can people-watch, it's surprising how many people pass and the number that are keen to embrace the free fruit..

 

[Gillstay]

The flowers you have are Cyclamen. Probably hederifolium. Lucky you.

 

[newts]

I had a great time yesterday along with a small group of adults/kids helping with an apple pick.
Picking these & various other varieties.



Then pressing ~200 litres of juice, 100 of which will end up as cider.