What would you do?...part 2:)

[runner]

Just to remind you from an earlier post the bottom of my Racelight tk2 frame was damaged after less than 300 miles....I do not know how but when I turned the bike upside down to clean the following was present...

I actually believe that this damage was caused whilst out riding...how I do not know..but after numerous talks with LBS that is the conclusion I have come to. Kinesis will not replace as the frame was ordered and delivered some 6 months ago but due to delays etc was not put together and ridden until recently. The options are as follows..my LBS (great guy...Simon Webbs of Warmley Bristol..lets here it for Simon ) will at his own cost have it repaired...or 2nd option I can order a new frame also at cost from Kinesis and he will rebuild etc. A third option is I could order a new frame entirely (I was thinking of a genesis equilibrium 20) and again he would build/transfer all bits over for me etc. The questions are will I notice the repair? will it weaken the bike? is there a fault in this frame or the Kinesis tk2 in particular? Should I get a new tk2 frame at cost?, Simon will then give me the old frame and I can hopefully sell? (would anyone like a 2nd hand tk2 with a dent) I love my bikes...my wife does not understand my dilemma...have it repaired she says...she doesn't understand....what do you think...help me solve the problem and I can then sleep in peace

 

[DCLane]

Me, I'd have it repaired. You waited 6 months for it didn't you?

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

Well I would personally never buy another frame from Kinesis for a start. If a company wants my loyalty they must treat me like they want it and deserve it.
By the sounds of it your LBS has found a customer for life in your by attempting to do his best given the current situation, its this kind of response which I would hope the frame maker would have given you.
As its not their fault, the frame maker seems to have washed their hands of it, which although is legally acceptable is disappointing as I feel they had more to gain by going above and beyond. This would turn you into a promoter of their business like you are for your local bike store. Right now you neither sound enthusiastic about the company, brand or bike.

Assume you buy another frame, what happens if you are not happy with it.... Can you be sure the frame company will be supportive or their products or you as a customer?
Personally I would be less than happy if my bike showed that kind of damage after 300 miles how ever it happened, unless you abused it (which I do not know), I would hope the frame maker would at least take interest in what has happened to ensure its not an issue for other customers. Assume you get the new frame, how can you be certain that it can not be damaged in the same way so easily again?

There is a thread on these forums which documents Specialized replacing frames which are many years old without question and I myself have received really great customer service from them. They have even replaced a seat post I destroyed trying to modify it for example. Did they need to? Of course not... but they cared for me as a customer and saw the value of this rather than the opportunity to sell me something else, They also informed me of a way to achieve what I wanted to do. This is why I continuously go back to this brand.

The question which I feel you need to ask is do you trust the Kinesis brand as much as your LBS, and this will give you your real options.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Why should Kinesis take responsiblity for that? It's obviously been hit by something and is no way a manufacturing defect.

You're LBS has offered you a good deal either way and you have no cause to complain.

 

[runner]

Why should Kinesis take responsiblity for that? It's obviously been hit by something and is no way a manufacturing defect.

You're LBS has offered you a good deal either way and you have no cause to complain.

It does look like a hit/smack...but I can assure that is not the case....some freak stone has hit the bike during my mere 300 miles and I believe Kinesis should show a little customer service and replace what is obviously faulty. My reluctance at buying a new Kinesis frame is how can I trust them? and without a doubt my LBS has been fantastic but even they said to me, before contacting Kinesis, that they would not replace. I will be sending a not so nice email to Kinesis later today, I will not get anywhere but I will put my opinion forward with some force...there's a lot of bike competition out there and they should treat their customers with some honesty and loyalty...

 

[Norm]

How is that damage caused by something which is "obviously faulty"? Whether you know how it has happened or not, that has taken a heck of a bang to crack the paint and bend the metal like that and I can't see how it can be considered a fault of the manufacturer.

 

[ianrauk]

I don't believe it's a fault and I don't believe a stone could have done that. What i think is that the frame was dropped sometime before being built up with wheels/components etc. Either at the manufacturers, the bike shop or by yourself.

Your bike shop are willing at their own cost to have the frame repaired. That is a very fair deal.

 

[Smokin Joe]

It does look like a hit/smack...but I can assure that is not the case....some freak stone has hit the bike during my mere 300 miles and I believe Kinesis should show a little customer service and replace what is obviously faulty. My reluctance at buying a new Kinesis frame is how can I trust them? and without a doubt my LBS has been fantastic but even they said to me, before contacting Kinesis, that they would not replace. I will be sending a not so nice email to Kinesis later today, I will not get anywhere but I will put my opinion forward with some force...there's a lot of bike competition out there and they should treat their customers with some honesty and loyalty...

I don't mean to be unkind, but if I were Kinesis I would tell you to take a running jump. That is not a material failure, it would not deform like that because of a fault in the aluminium, it has been hit hard by something. As you don't appear to be claiming it came from the LBS like that it must have happened since you bought it, not nescessaraly while you were riding it but maybe someone knocked it while it was parked or garaged?

 

[runner]

I don't mean to be unkind, but if I were Kinesis I would tell you to take a running jump. That is not a material failure, it would not deform like that because of a fault in the aluminium, it has been hit hard by something. As you don't appear to be claiming it came from the LBS like that it must have happened since you bought it, not nescessaraly while you were riding it but maybe someone knocked it while it was parked or garaged?

Just before disappearing from the LBS with my new tk2 I was given the usual invoice and this entailed taking the frame no..ie upending the bike which I recall clearly and it has to be said that if there had been damage then I or the LBS owner would have seen...so that leaves sabotage!!..which is probably highly unlikely as I work at the magistrates court and the bike is secure...but you never know...I do hope that if I decide to get a new tk2 frame I can have some confidence in its longevity.....

 

[Norm]

So.... it has had a heck of a whack which was definitely not there when you bought the bike.

What is it that you were complaining about then?

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

im not for a moment suggesting that the manfacturer is at fault, but I do think they could be more helpfull to a customer.. Is this to much to ask.
Too many companys these days put empasis on short term profit over long term customer loyality and return business.
Were the frame makers responsible, NO.... could they be more helpfull regarding the situation and try to help more, YES.... if the bike shop can manage to do so, why not the frame maker.
I think the OP will do a lot word of mouth promotion and advertising for his LBS but less so for the frame builder, which must have a certain financial impact as reputation counts for a lot these days.

 

[Smokin Joe]

im not for a moment suggesting that the manfacturer is at fault, but I do think they could be more helpfull to a customer.. Is this to much to ask.
Too many companys these days put empasis on short term profit over long term customer loyality and return business.
Were the frame makers responsible, NO.... could they be more helpfull regarding the situation and try to help more, YES.... if the bike shop can manage to do so, why not the frame maker.
I think the OP will do a lot word of mouth promotion and advertising for his LBS but less so for the frame builder, which must have a certain financial impact as reputation counts for a lot these days.

You've just outlined the perfect model for running a business into the ground, ie replace any product you sell that was in perfect condition because the customer has damaged it. Try taking your pc back to Currys and telling them you dropped it and what are they going to do about it, but don't hold your breath.

The OP's experience would not put me off buying a Kinesis as they have done nothing wrong.

 

[Paul J]

Something fishy going on me thinks.... Why would LBS offer to repair it for free at their cost unless they know how it got damaged? If I was the LBS or the manufacturer of the frame I would say not my problem. Come on how is it their fault?

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

I doubt i have outlined the perfect business model for running a business into the ground, it most certainly works for my line of business, you can physically purchase what I do for so much cheaper. The fact is we are really expensive, but in a time when so many companies are shrinking, and laying people off im doing better than ever. New customers come mostly from word of mouth recomendations.
Customers tell me that they stay with me because they know when push comes to shove, I do my very best to assist no matter what time of day or night... No matter what happens to my customers and who's to blame, I do my best to help and the customers are very willing to pay a premium for this.
At no point did I suggest the product was replaced by the frame maker I just think they could have at least looked at the frame and evaluated if they could help or advise on the best course of action - for example they could advise if they think a repair would be OK or effect the bike frame in some other manner, instead they simply took the approach, its not my problem which is fine, I just do not think it's a nice way to treat someone if you want return custom.