John the Monkey
Frivolous Cyclist
- Location
- Crewe
Ride predictably, expect others to do the unexpected - works for me, although there's some stuff you'll never be ready for (ime).
What's the point of "behaving"? We still won't be seen in a better light
- Thread starter Sheffield_Tiger
- Start date
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jonny jeez
Legendary Member
- Location
- Chislehurst, Kent, UK
coruskate said:
good point!
I think people like that will behave "like that" whether they are in a car, a van, a bike, a boat, plane, pavement or whatever....they are just idiots.
MOST people just want to get to work without any agro
stowie
Legendary Member
It is completely futile to think that if only cyclists stuck to the rules then motorists would suddenly love us. We need to stick to the rules because in some cases it keeps us safe, in other cases it keeps other road users safe, and because we should stay within the law.
The issue is that motorists have enjoyed almost total hegemony on the roads for many years. Even walking (which everyone has to do at least occasionally) is marginalised. So any concession the motorist has to make (no matter how small) is treated as unacceptable by a vociferous minority. Look at how ASLs and cycle lanes are ignored to a great extent. No amount of good behaviour will help that - it needs re-education.
Of course many (maybe the majority) or motorists are considerate and I find a lot of conflict caused by carelessness or ignorance. But there is a general feeling that cyclists "invade" the motorists' road space, and frankly this attitude is only going to change if more motorists become cyclists as well.
The issue is that motorists have enjoyed almost total hegemony on the roads for many years. Even walking (which everyone has to do at least occasionally) is marginalised. So any concession the motorist has to make (no matter how small) is treated as unacceptable by a vociferous minority. Look at how ASLs and cycle lanes are ignored to a great extent. No amount of good behaviour will help that - it needs re-education.
Of course many (maybe the majority) or motorists are considerate and I find a lot of conflict caused by carelessness or ignorance. But there is a general feeling that cyclists "invade" the motorists' road space, and frankly this attitude is only going to change if more motorists become cyclists as well.
jonny jeez
Legendary Member
- Location
- Chislehurst, Kent, UK
Kestevan said:I'm not claiming to be better than anyone.
And I am sure that coruskate was not saying you were...just that that calculation explains a lot about human nature
Yeppers. I think the emphasis, perhaps, should not be on "assume they're all idiots" so much as "assume that any of us might do something idiotic at any time". It's not that people are by and large too stupid to be let out unsupervised - although undoubtedly a few are - but that safely and considerately piloting (driving or riding) a road vehicle is cognitively demanding to an extent which I think a lot of people don't realise. Even the best cock up from time to time and we all should be prepared for that just as we hope that others will be if we do.Kestevan said:I'm not claiming to be better than anyone
GrumpyGregry
Here for rides.
from the excellent ipayroadtax.com
A satirical verse in Punch magazine of 1907 summed up the hegemony attitude up:
The roads were made for me; years ago they were made. Wise rulers saw me coming and made roads. Now that I am come they go on making roads – making them up. For I break things. Roads I break and Rules of the Road. Statutory limits were made for me. I break them. I break the dull silence of the country. Sometimes I break down, and thousands flock round me, so that I dislocate the traffic. But I am the Traffic.
Forty years later, J.S. Dean, the journalist and head of the Pedestrians’ Association, wrote a polemic calling for an end to “road slaughter” and an end to the motorists’ view that highways were made for their exclusive use:
“The private driver is… most strongly influenced by the sense of ownership of his car, and, as he often believes, of the road as well. It is “his” car to do with as he pleases, and, as he often believes, it is “his” road too, and the other road-users are merely intruders who are there at their own peril.
The other day I heard someone complaining on Radio 4 that there was a sign in a local station car park saying "No sleeping". The presenter's response "No one tells me what I may or may not do in my own car".
The more things change the more they stay the same.
An Englishman's home is his ca..... ;-)
A satirical verse in Punch magazine of 1907 summed up the hegemony attitude up:
The roads were made for me; years ago they were made. Wise rulers saw me coming and made roads. Now that I am come they go on making roads – making them up. For I break things. Roads I break and Rules of the Road. Statutory limits were made for me. I break them. I break the dull silence of the country. Sometimes I break down, and thousands flock round me, so that I dislocate the traffic. But I am the Traffic.
Forty years later, J.S. Dean, the journalist and head of the Pedestrians’ Association, wrote a polemic calling for an end to “road slaughter” and an end to the motorists’ view that highways were made for their exclusive use:
“The private driver is… most strongly influenced by the sense of ownership of his car, and, as he often believes, of the road as well. It is “his” car to do with as he pleases, and, as he often believes, it is “his” road too, and the other road-users are merely intruders who are there at their own peril.
The other day I heard someone complaining on Radio 4 that there was a sign in a local station car park saying "No sleeping". The presenter's response "No one tells me what I may or may not do in my own car".
The more things change the more they stay the same.
An Englishman's home is his ca..... ;-)
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