I'm glad I'm not the only bloke to get hooked on wheel buildingI guess I'm a normal chap after all
No you're not. You are a practitioner of dark arts and witchcraft
Wheel Building - I'm hooked!
- Thread starter S.Giles
- Start date
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No you're not. You are a practitioner of dark arts and witchcraft
ayceejay
Guru
- Location
- Rural Quebec
This post resonates totally, after a couple of dodgy LBS experiences I decided to get into the technical aspects. as you call it. I recently built a bike from scratch which was a very satisfying experience and after reading your post I am tempted to try wheel building next.
Where do you buy all the bits?
Where do you buy all the bits?
Supersuperleeds
Legendary Member
- Location
- Leicester
I'd fail that test on all three counts.
OP
OP
S.Giles
Guest
So far I've only built a front wheel, and used the cycle as a truing stand. This will not be as convenient with the rear wheel though, with an oily chain etc getting in the way.
My front wheel was a disc brake wheel, so needed some considerable dishing to be built in. Basically, if the spokes on one side are tightened an extra turn (or two) during the process, the wheel will dish. It's just a case of thinking it through and tightening every other spoke (correct side!) at a stage before the wheel has tightened up too much (the earlier the better). A dishing gauge can be made out of cardboard, and does not even have to be as sophisticated as the one Musson describes (I used a bit of old wood and an envelope! [a lolly-stick held in place with finger-pressure long enough to compare both sides would have been better - pinch the stick and then flip the wheel]).
The calculations are important, not at all intuitive, and when starting out it's not easy to be sure you're right. I used both the formula and an on-line calculator, and to my amazement, the results were identical! Rebuilding an existing wheel would allow the original spokes to be measured as a check.
I now have a bicycle with fancy Sapim stainless steel spokes on the front wheel, and loose, rusty-looking junk on the rear. It's quite amusing to compare the twang of the front spokes with the sound (can't think of a good word for it) of the rear ones.
Steve
My front wheel was a disc brake wheel, so needed some considerable dishing to be built in. Basically, if the spokes on one side are tightened an extra turn (or two) during the process, the wheel will dish. It's just a case of thinking it through and tightening every other spoke (correct side!) at a stage before the wheel has tightened up too much (the earlier the better). A dishing gauge can be made out of cardboard, and does not even have to be as sophisticated as the one Musson describes (I used a bit of old wood and an envelope! [a lolly-stick held in place with finger-pressure long enough to compare both sides would have been better - pinch the stick and then flip the wheel]).
The calculations are important, not at all intuitive, and when starting out it's not easy to be sure you're right. I used both the formula and an on-line calculator, and to my amazement, the results were identical! Rebuilding an existing wheel would allow the original spokes to be measured as a check.
I now have a bicycle with fancy Sapim stainless steel spokes on the front wheel, and loose, rusty-looking junk on the rear. It's quite amusing to compare the twang of the front spokes with the sound (can't think of a good word for it) of the rear ones.
Steve
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We name and shame so cannot see any reason not to name and praise. we often do it when receiving good service.
OP
OP
S.Giles
Guest
Malcolm Borg of The Cycle Clinic www.thecycleclinic.co.uk was most helpful. One of the Sapim spokes I purchased was not properly formed (apparently this is very unusual), and so Malcolm sent me a replacement that arrived the next day.
I have to say that all the people from whom I've purchased bicycle parts over the months have been very friendly and helpful.
It's also nice to find a forum that doesn't suffer from every discussion deteriorating into a handbag fight! I guess the bicycle world isn't as highly strung as some other subjects.
Steve
I have to say that all the people from whom I've purchased bicycle parts over the months have been very friendly and helpful.
It's also nice to find a forum that doesn't suffer from every discussion deteriorating into a handbag fight! I guess the bicycle world isn't as highly strung as some other subjects.
Steve
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jazzkat
Fixed wheel fanatic.
- Location
- The Cumbrian Riviera
I built my first set a couple of months ago and had to stop myself going on a shopping spree and kitting my bikes out with new wheels they didn't need!
I too really enjoyed the process and found it easier than I expected.
Roger Mussons book was definitely worth the investmnent.
I too really enjoyed the process and found it easier than I expected.
Roger Mussons book was definitely worth the investmnent.
Saddle bum
Über Member
- Location
- Kent
Spa Cycles for spokes, they stock the complete Sapim range.
Google "Spocalk" for calculating spoke lengths.
It's black art and you never stop learning.
Google "Spocalk" for calculating spoke lengths.
It's black art and you never stop learning.
Spoked Wheels
Legendary Member
- Location
- Bournemouth
Website shows limited selection. No Super Spokes, Laser, D-light, Force nor CX, CX Ray, Zinc, and Leader. Hardly the complete range
As for wheel building being black art, I don't know about that. A pro wheel builder said this and I tend to agree "As somebody who earns money building wheels, I'd like to say its difficult, but it isn't."
Like in anything, you never stop learning. With wheel building, with practice and experience the builder gets quicker as he/she develops a feel for what is right. For example, Roger Musson teaches to build up tension half a turn at a time. Somebody who has developed a feeling for how much tightening the spokes need would do 1, 2 or 3 turns instead and save time. It's easier to true a wheel when the spokes are already tight, etc. That is what experience and practice does. Judgement of what is required is better and that saves time but I still think the approach Roger Musson teaches is the right way to learn.
My view on good wheel building is that it has do with the builder's own work standards. If a wheel builder has high standards then that builder will build good wheels. At the beginning it will take him/her longer but the wheel will be still well built. A builder with low standards even with 20 years of experience will build poor wheels. There are a number of steps in the process of building a wheel that need to be repeated several times to achieve a good build. High standards will drive you to the point that the wheel is right. Low standards will drive you to stop the process or miss steps before the wheel is right, I don't say perfect because as RM says there is no such thing as a 100% perfect. I did try to achieve perfection and it's impossible so 0.1 - 0.2mm it's fine for lateral tolerance and under 0.5mm round tolerance is widely accepted. Not forgetting that rims are not built equal and they are not perfect by any means.
I find the hardest part of a wheel builder is to learn and keep up to date with the many rims, hubs, etc. That just doesn't motivate me
maybe that is because wheel building is a hobby and not my job. On the other hand, learning and understanding more technical aspects of wheel building, such as the impact of bracing angle fascinates me. Fortunately people have already worked out what to avoid but it's interesting to understand why rather than simply know "avoid mixing wide flanges with deep rims" for example.
andytheflyer
Guru
- Location
- South Cheshire
+1 for the OP.
I've just done exactly the same, using Musson's book, and a page from Sheldon. I built the RM jig, and the dishing gauge.
Ordered a Mavic Openpro 36H rim and a Tiagra rear hub, then measured the rim ERD from RM's method, and used Freespoke (google it) to determine the spoke lengths. I found SJS had a full range of DT double-butted spoke lengths so went to them.
Took me about an hour to lace up, 3 cross pattern, and maybe a further 90 mins to true and dish. No difficulty using the walk away and come back later method to get roundness to <0.5mm and lateral to better than a couple of fag papers. Nervously (as in very....) tried it yesterday and did maybe 500m. No clinks, dings, nothing. Dead quiet. Rims gone about a mm out of true (I'm 100kg!) so obviously relaxed a bit but that'll soon come out with a turn or 2 of the spoke key. Getting on a bike with a wheel you've just built has to be the biggest leap of faith - maybe other than parachuting.
This has got to be one of the most satisfying things I have ever done. Wheels have always been a worry for me, but no more.
All you need is patience, logic, and method. Dead easy to build a serviceable wheel.
I've just done exactly the same, using Musson's book, and a page from Sheldon. I built the RM jig, and the dishing gauge.
Ordered a Mavic Openpro 36H rim and a Tiagra rear hub, then measured the rim ERD from RM's method, and used Freespoke (google it) to determine the spoke lengths. I found SJS had a full range of DT double-butted spoke lengths so went to them.
Took me about an hour to lace up, 3 cross pattern, and maybe a further 90 mins to true and dish. No difficulty using the walk away and come back later method to get roundness to <0.5mm and lateral to better than a couple of fag papers. Nervously (as in very....) tried it yesterday and did maybe 500m. No clinks, dings, nothing. Dead quiet. Rims gone about a mm out of true (I'm 100kg!) so obviously relaxed a bit but that'll soon come out with a turn or 2 of the spoke key. Getting on a bike with a wheel you've just built has to be the biggest leap of faith - maybe other than parachuting.
This has got to be one of the most satisfying things I have ever done. Wheels have always been a worry for me, but no more.
All you need is patience, logic, and method. Dead easy to build a serviceable wheel.
Lanzecki
Über Member
- Location
- A Boreen, Ireland
As a non-member of the club, what's the advantage? While you can use a particular hub, and from reading above, there is a whole world of spokes out there (who would have thought) where do you get rims? Can you get the likes of Shimano Mavic rims? Or are they unbranded?
HB_Dude
Active Member
- Location
- Hereforshire
I have to be honest I haven't had the pleasure of building my own wheels ...yet!, but I have often considered it when tweeking the odd spoke here and there.
How does it compare from a financial point of view compared with good 'off the shelf wheels'?
How does it compare from a financial point of view compared with good 'off the shelf wheels'?
OP
OP
S.Giles
Guest
Not forgetting that rims are not built equal and they are not perfect by any means.
I know this to be true, even from my experience of building one wheel. The cheapo rims I bought looked great on Ebay, but were not totally round, having a slight 'hump' where the joint is. There was nothing I could do to correct the problem, and it complicated the build considerably, because the spokes in that area tightened-up quicker than the others. I had to come up with an on-the-fly method of compensating for this, and had to accept a compromise in radial trueness.
The good news is that the wheel works, the slight 'bump' cannot be felt when riding, and the wheel has not changed its shape during the first 200 miles or so of use.
I wouldn't buy cheap rims again, though. It's Mavic for me next time, I think. You live and learn.
Steve
I know this to be true, even from my experience of building one wheel. The cheapo rims I bought looked great on Ebay, but were not totally round, having a slight 'hump' where the joint is. There was nothing I could do to correct the problem, and it complicated the build considerably, because the spokes in that area tightened-up quicker than the others. I had to come up with an on-the-fly method of compensating for this, and had to accept a compromise in radial trueness.
The good news is that the wheel works, the slight 'bump' cannot be felt when riding, and the wheel has not changed its shape during the first 200 miles or so of use.
I wouldn't buy cheap rims again, though. It's Mavic for me next time, I think. You live and learn.
Steve
presta
Legendary Member
There's a much quicker, simpler and more accurate way to eliminate spoke torsion than doing it by feel as the books recommend.
After you have laced the wheel, and before you start tensioning, go around with a dvd marker pen and mark the end of each of the spokes next to the nipple. It only takes a couple of minutes, but once it's done you can remove the torsion by sight instead of feel. Not only is it a more accurate way to remove torsion, but you can accurately see how much adjustment you're making to the spokes as you true the wheel too.
There's a paradox with building wheels. The more you enjoy it the better you're likely to be at it, and the better you are at it the less often you'll have to do it.
