Which rear derailleur for loaded touring?

[froze]

I had an issue with my 2019 Masi Giramondo 700c, something was wrong with the frame that allowed it to flex almost a foot to either side in the rear when loaded, so Haro replaced the frame and fork under warranty, and did so hassle-free which pleasantly surprised me.

They sent me the newest 2023 Giramondo frame and fork, but for some reason, it came with Microshift XCD rear derailleur which I think is a clutch design?

The front is the MS XLE derailleur.

To my question; is the MS XCD a better front derailleur than the Deore that my bike came with in 2019 for touring with loads? OR should I skip both and get a Shimano Deore XT?

I do know that when I'm under load the original rear Deore derailleur doesn't shift as well as it does with no load, not sure why that would be happening, but it could be due to the unusual amount of frame flex I was getting with the 2019 Giramondo.

And the other related question, is the MS XLE a better front derailleur than the Deore? Or should I upgrade it to Deore XT? I haven't had any issues with the original Deore, so I'm thinking that since the front isn't as critical as the rear either transfer the Deore to the new bike or leave the MS XLE on it instead.

I don't know anything about Microshift, nor do I know anything about a clutch derailleur, will a clutch derailleur work better when under load?

I want a derailleur that will last a very long time and shift good when under load.

One person I spoke to said I should use the Suntour Mountech that I took of my 1985 Schwinn Le Tour Luxe that crashed and burned, they claimed those worked better than any modern derailleur will work when the bike is under load, any thoughts on that suggestion?

Thanks for your all help.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

I'm probably missing something, but given that the derailleur is attached immediately adjacent to the rear wheel and therefore cassette, why frame flex would affect one model differently to another is completely mysterious to me.

A frame flexing "a foot" sounds interesting too!

 

[presta]

I've done all my touring with a Deore and had no problems, but I don't know anything about the other one.

 

[fossyant]

Clutch Mechs are generally better on MTB's, the clutch is there to reduce chain slap over rough ground. I'd see how you go on with the microshift stuff.

 

[ianrauk]

A frame flexing "a foot" sounds interesting too!

Implausible comes to mind.

 

[presta]

A frame flexing "a foot" sounds interesting too!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N39uwTykTQk&t=483s

 

[Jameshow]

Unless it isn't working properly I'd keep it until it wears out?
However ime MS gear trains aren't as slick as Shimano.

 

[froze]

The frame flexing a foot happened when a bike shop owner, under direction from Haro/Masi, took my bike and rode it with my usual load on it, he also weighs about another 50 pounds than me, so the bike was under more weight with just the gear and me, and he told me he could see the rear end moving a foot in either direction, and that obviously isn't right, his concern was after repeated flexing like that a weld would fail leading to a potentially serious crash. Whether he exaggerated the movement I don't know, but I do know when I would ride it was moving about 3 to 4 inches back and forth, add another 50 pounds and what would happen? But even if he exaggerated and say it moved 6 inches that's a lot, even under me at 3 to 4 inches is a lot.

Keep in mind that this bike shop is a dealer for Haro, the bike shop guy has an interest in protecting Haro and making Haro happy, and if he saw that frame flexing like that, it probably was, and knowing that continual riding on it could cause frame failure would result in a lawsuit against Haro, just as what happened with All City Bikes who is looking at a possible $12 million dollar lawsuit when a weld failed on one of their bikes seriously injuring a rider with so far $3 million in medical bills. So the bike shop owner knows that failure to replace the frame could cause a major problem down the road.

The other thing I forgot to mention is that the Deore derailleur would ghost shift under load, I tried to adjust it, took it to two different bike shops and no one could figure out why it would ghost shift only under load, but that could be due to the frame flexing, so maybe that will stop with the new frame.

But it still comes down to the question, do I keep the Deore instead of the Microshift XCD, or do I keep the MS XCD? Or do I go with Deore XT, or do I go back in time and pull my nearly brand new Suntour Mountech and put that on instead of using newer stuff? I want to make sure that the derailleur will shift very good when under load, and not experience ghost shifting.

 

[fossyant]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N39uwTykTQk&t=483s

I was going to look for that bike.

 

[All uphill]

The frame flexing a foot happened when a bike shop owner, under direction from Haro/Masi, took my bike and rode it with my usual load on it, he also weighs about another 50 pounds than me, so the bike was under more weight with just the gear and me, and he told me he could see the rear end moving a foot in either direction, and that obviously isn't right, his concern was after repeated flexing like that a weld would fail leading to a potentially serious crash. Whether he exaggerated the movement I don't know, but I do know when I would ride it was moving about 3 to 4 inches back and forth, add another 50 pounds and what would happen? But even if he exaggerated and say it moved 6 inches that's a lot, even under me at 3 to 4 inches is a lot.

Keep in mind that this bike shop is a dealer for Haro, the bike shop guy has an interest in protecting Haro and making Haro happy, and if he saw that frame flexing like that, it probably was, and knowing that continual riding on it could cause frame failure would result in a lawsuit against Haro, just as what happened with All City Bikes who is looking at a possible $12 million dollar lawsuit when a weld failed on one of their bikes seriously injuring a rider with so far $3 million in medical bills. So the bike shop owner knows that failure to replace the frame could cause a major problem down the road.

The other thing I forgot to mention is that the Deore derailleur would ghost shift under load, I tried to adjust it, took it to two different bike shops and no one could figure out why it would ghost shift only under load, but that could be due to the frame flexing, so maybe that will stop with the new frame.

But it still comes down to the question, do I keep the Deore instead of the Microshift XCD, or do I keep the MS XCD? Or do I go with Deore XT, or do I go back in time and pull my nearly brand new Suntour Mountech and put that on instead of using newer stuff? I want to make sure that the derailleur will shift very good when under load, and not experience ghost shifting.

Sounds to me like the problem is not the derailleur, but frame flex changing the tension on the gear cable causing ghost gear changes.

If that is correct it won't matter what cable operated derailleur you fit, the frame is not up to the loads imposed on it and you need a frame with decent rigidity.

 

[presta]

I've done all my touring with a Deore

I should have said most of my touring, the bike originally came with an Acera rear derailleur which was worn out and self-changing after 10,800m.

 

[froze]

Sounds to me like the problem is not the derailleur, but frame flex changing the tension on the gear cable causing ghost gear changes.

If that is correct it won't matter what cable operated derailleur you fit, the frame is not up to the loads imposed on it and you need a frame with decent rigidity.

That is sort of the direction I was thinking too, I'm only running 60 pounds of gear and water, the bike was 36 pounds including racks, and I weigh 173 pounds. I did contact Haro before I bought the bike in 2019 and told them what my weights would be and they said the bike would be fine...obviously it was not. The bike shop owner thinks that the CroMoly frame on the 19 Masi may not have been heat treated properly, that was his guess, and he used to work in a factory that made various types of CroMoly frames, so maybe he could be correct? Regardless, Masi sent me a new 2023 frame and fork yesterday and I haven't had the time to get it to the bike shop for the transplant. I was just wondering since the transplant is being done what things I could do that would improve the bike, and perhaps a better derailleur might be better for me in the long run?

The one thing the bike shop guy did say was to replace the hub races with ceramic, he said that would make the hubs bombproof, roll with a lot better efficiency, and could be done for $40 for the pair, not sure if I would even notice that when under load; he also said the crank could be changed to ceramic too but that would run me $400, no I told him on that one. And there was a half ceramic bearing change, or what he called a hybrid bearing system that could be done to the crank, but he didn't think that would matter all that much, but the cost was a lot less than full ceramic.

 

[Dogtrousers]

The other thing I forgot to mention is that the Deore derailleur would ghost shift under load,

Just to confirm, when you say "under load" do you mean the chain is under load (ie you are pedalling hard) or the bike is under load (ie you have luggage on it).

Normally I'd assume the former (you are loading the chain) but because your title says "loaded touring" I think perhaps it's the latter (bike loaded with gear)

I tend to agree with @All uphill that the ghost shifting isn't the derailleur's fault. I sometimes get it on my bike with friction shifters if the levers aren't done up tight enough and the cable slips.

 

[All uphill]

That is sort of the direction I was thinking too, I'm only running 60 pounds of gear and water, the bike was 36 pounds including racks, and I weigh 173 pounds. I did contact Haro before I bought the bike in 2019 and told them what my weights would be and they said the bike would be fine...obviously it was not. The bike shop owner thinks that the CroMoly frame on the 19 Masi may not have been heat treated properly, that was his guess, and he used to work in a factory that made various types of CroMoly frames, so maybe he could be correct? Regardless, Masi sent me a new 2023 frame and fork yesterday and I haven't had the time to get it to the bike shop for the transplant. I was just wondering since the transplant is being done what things I could do that would improve the bike, and perhaps a better derailleur might be better for me in the long run?

The one thing the bike shop guy did say was to replace the hub races with ceramic, he said that would make the hubs bombproof, roll with a lot better efficiency, and could be done for $40 for the pair, not sure if I would even notice that when under load; he also said the crank could be changed to ceramic too but that would run me $400, no I told him on that one. And there was a half ceramic bearing change, or what he called a hybrid bearing system that could be done to the crank, but he didn't think that would matter all that much, but the cost was a lot less than full ceramic.

As someone who has toured and shopped without problems on a 1994 steel Marin with well greased but standard bearings and a basic Shimano derailleur, I wonder if you need anything more than a reasonably stiff frame to sort the problems you've had.

Even with a full load of shopping, or of concrete slabs for the garden the gears change fine on my old bike.

 

[froze]

Just to confirm, when you say "under load" do you mean the chain is under load (ie you are pedalling hard) or the bike is under load (ie you have luggage on it).

Normally I'd assume the former (you are loading the chain) but because your title says "loaded touring" I think perhaps it's the latter (bike loaded with gear)

I tend to agree with @All uphill that the ghost shifting isn't the derailleur's fault. I sometimes get it on my bike with friction shifters if the levers aren't done up tight enough and the cable slips.

When the bike has luggage on it.

This bike isn't friction, it does use barend shifters, and it is click and shift, or STI if you will, all that stuff was looked at by the bike shops and they found nothing wrong, so I think, and has been confirmed here, that it was the frame flexing, that much flexing had to play havoc on the derailleur and chain staying in gear.