who says we look for incidences?

[MrHappyCyclist]

The only claim I made was that I had "taken an interest" I made no claim to an in depth study and have tried very hard to avoid being in anyway unpleasant or to "lecture" anyone. I've tried to raise points and opinions.
The videos I've studied, actually viewed would be a better word, are those posted on here by camera-culture supporters. I felt these videos were being used to support their case , I have not surfed the net looking for material in an attempt to trip people up.
What I have viewed, one instance springs to mind immediately provided by Gaz, is a number if incidences where the cyclist created the situation but the motorist is castigated and his number published. I don't quite follow that.

So when you said: "I've taken quite an interest in the subject in recent weeks for no reason other than 3-4 threads on here, and some specific comments from individual posters, caught my attention. Consequently I've become more aware of the whole culture" and then proceeded to write a lecture on "the self-justification which seems to run through the culture" and how camera cyclists ought to "Use [their] undoubted talents - on bike and camera - to educate fellow cyclists not persue [sic] errant motorists", what you really meant was: "I have viewed 3 or 4 videos, and really know nothing of the culture, but am going to pontificate about it anyway".

The point is that there is already a very strong culture of sharing experiences, through the use of video, for the purposes of learning and teaching amongst cyclists; you just haven't noticed it. Much of that culture is reflected in the blogs of the camera users, where they explore more about the issues raised by videos than can sensibly be covered in slanging matches with trolls on YouTube.

 

[BentMikey]

Some of us have been filming our commutes for more than six years.

 

[Hip Priest]

I think cameras are a force for good, on the whole. I've said it before but the Silly Cyclist series was a major help when I started commuting.

I'd not get a cam myself, simply because I can't afford one and would be a bit wary of reprisals from motorists.

 

[growingvegetables]

The point is that there is already a very strong culture of sharing experiences, through the use of video, for the purposes of learning and teaching amongst cyclists; you just haven't noticed it. Much of that culture is reflected in the blogs of the camera users, where they explore more about the issues raised by videos than can sensibly be covered in slanging matches with trolls on YouTube.

+1 - spot on

 

[Bman]

I think cameras are a force for good, on the whole. I've said it before but the Silly Cyclist series was a major help when I started commuting.

I'd not get a cam myself, simply because I can't afford one and would be a bit wary of reprisals from motorists.

Why would you get reprisals for mearly using a cam?

I can happily say I have had zero reprisals following the use of my camera. But then again, I dont shove it in their face whilst telling them off. (Also, its small enough to go un-noticed, unless pointed out)

 

[Jezston]

I think he means from putting them up on YouTube.

You don't have to put them up publicly on YouTube, or you don't have to tag their reg to the video.

 

[Hip Priest]

Yeah, I meant on YouTube. I'm fairly thin-skinned and don't like arguments.

Budget is the main reason. There are other cycling things I need to buy before I'd consider a cam. Including a new commuter bike.

 

[BentMikey]

I think he means from putting them up on YouTube.

You don't have to put them up publicly on YouTube, or you don't have to tag their reg to the video.

That's true enough, but not doing so takes the consequences away. No consequences mean only a fraction of the chance of the driver learning from their mistake.

If you don't like the arguments on YouTube, then the easy solution is to disable comments and voting. I've a couple of videos that have gone big amongst anti-cyclists, and I eventually gave up and stopped accepting comments.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I've just ordered a cheap cam from Amazon. To be honest a lot of the close passes I see online would not make me bat an eyelid, let alone shout, gesture or have a go at attempt to educate the driver at the next red lght or upload a video to YouTube by way of retaliation. But each to their own.

So why do I want to record my rides when I return to commuting all the way by bike next month? In case I end up in an another accident, or am threatened with assault again, and it ends up as his/her word against mine.

That's only partially relevant, surely? Let's say I was overtaken very closely at a pinch point, like the video below. Yes, a stronger position on the road would probably have prevented, or at least discouraged, the incident, but that doesn't mean the driver was justified in such a terrible overtake.

Benb, get with the programme. Even your fellow cyclists are into our road culture of blaming victims it seems. Helmet or Hi-Viz anyone?

 

[BentMikey]

When you get a bit more used to judging camera fields of view vs pass distance, then you will probably fall into one of two camps: 1) you'll realise that most of the close passes you see are indeed very close, or 2) you are one of those few riders who're quite happy with cars passing at speed within about a foot of you.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

When you get a bit more used to judging camera fields of view vs pass distance, then you will probably fall into one of two camps: 1) you'll realise that most of the close passes you see are indeed very close, or 2) you are one of those few riders who're quite happy with cars passing at speed within about a foot of you.

wrong on every count.

 

[BentMikey]

Doesn't sound like it to me. I mean, sure, there are some passes which seem to leave plenty of space for my personal taste, but most of the UKnian ones I see on the 'Tube are not just too close for safety, but dangerously close.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Doesn't sound like it to me. I mean, sure, there are some passes which seem to leave plenty of space for my personal taste, but most of the UKnian ones I see on the 'Tube are not just too close for safety, but dangerously close.

I'm trying to tease something out of this... because it has been the subject of an interesting face-to-face debate in another place.

Close passes are potentially dangerous for sure, and as such are regarded by many as unpleasant, but the judgement of that potential danger is highly subjective, and an objective assessment of the UKnian (love it) (video) evidence seems to suggests only a tiny number are actually dangerous in that they have an affect on the rider's control of their bike. Yes, cyclists can then put forward a whole range of "But what if I swerved to avoid a pothole...." style arguments but those can be countered by a whole range of counter points about correct road position, defensive riding styles, and "What if never was"

 

[GrasB]

I'm trying to tease something out of this... because it has been the subject of an interesting face-to-face debate in another place.

Close passes are potentially dangerous for sure, and as such are regarded by many as unpleasant, but the judgement of that potential danger is highly subjective, and an objective assessment of the UKnian (love it) (video) evidence seems to suggests only a tiny number are actually dangerous in that they have an affect on the rider's control of their bike. Yes, cyclists can then put forward a whole range of "But what if I swerved to avoid a pothole...." style arguments but those can be countered by a whole range of counter points about correct road position, defensive riding styles, and "What if never was"

Problem is with close passes it just needs one thing to go wrong & you're in trouble. Incidents very rarely have a single reason for happening. They're a compound problem with multiple small problems stacked on top of each other. Each problem on it's own would be a non-event, but stacked together they cause a dangerous incident.

In fact this morning was a good example of why close passes are potentially dangerous, a bit of frost on the road nothing major & for the most part it's all fine. However at one point I'm riding along in a strong secondary just cruising in a straight line when suddenly the rear wheel steps out. It slides down the camber of the road moving my angle of attack to about 30 degrees towards the centre of the road. I correct with steering & the rear catches, this causes the front wheel to slide sideways. To correct the front slide I straighten the front wheel up & slowly turn the bike back to running down the road again - there's obviously some black ice about so very easy does it. By this point I'm close to the centre line of the road. The stretch of road I was on at that point was a perfect overtaking place for a car... how about that for an example of a what if?

 

[marafi]

Too many almost knock outs by car. Even with a camera it seems the taxis drivers and buses are out there to be annoying. Especially in Finchely Road!! I try my best not to look for incidents though they seem to driver very close to me! Trouble it always seems to find me! LOL