Why do trains hate cyclists?

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annedonnelly

Girl from the North Country
(and, for good manners, avoid the really busy commuter train).
And I don't think it can hurt to treat the staff as human beings - saying "good morning" & "thanks" instead of waving your ticket in their direction while absorbed in your mobile phone.
 

Learnincurve

Senior Member
Location
Chesterfield
I don't know if this is relevant information but it's mostly down to train/carriage types. I can tell you without a shadow of doubt that the trans pennine stopping train from sheffield to Manchester will take bikes without reservation. Both ends of the train have bike areas, and you can also fit them in the disabled areas if needs be.

It's bloody beeching and the bus I have problems with. They closed down two train lines my side of derbyshire. So to get to the hope valley you have to go to sheffield first an back out, and to get to west derbyshire you have to go to derby and then out. To get to east Derbyshire from the Hope Valley you have to go to Sheffield, then to derby and then back out again.
 
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OP
IHateTrains

IHateTrains

New Member
Wasn't expecting any replies tbh!

Looking at their website on their cycling policy, they say

First TransPennine Express welcomes customers who wish to combine bike and rail for commuting, business or for leisure.

There is a direct number for cycle enquiries - I would probably use this rather than mucking around at the ticket office, although it seems clear from the documents that you should be able to take the cycle on without booking as long as there is space.

Are you commuting everyday between the same stations? May be interesting to go to them when you have time, with a saved copy of their cycle terms and conditions to see why you are being mucked about. Clearly the weight limit thing is ludicrous.

I sometimes find posting on something like twitter or facebook with the company tagged will elicit a faster response than dealing with a bored station employee.

Good luck! Finally, if I was commuting regularly using bike and train, I would invest in a folding bicycle - they clearly state these can be carried on at all times as per any other item of luggage. Presuming, I suppose, that the weight doesn't compromise the train! :laugh:

The staff at the station aren't interested. It's as if the train conductor and the station staff work for different companies.

Always carry a copy of the cycling policy with you...... preferably dated

That solves a lot of problems

.

Added to my ever growing sack of tricks.

Nope, I'll leave it for someone else...

To be fair, I was very, VERY angry.

The only way to get the train and cycle on smaller trains is a folding bike. I hate having to get a train with a bike at anytime of the day especially rush hour.

Have looked into this. How expensive is a bog-standard one though? I looked on ebay and made in China, twist gear efforts are going for £300 second hand. :rolleyes:

3/10.

More effort needed for the next attempt at a rant. More swearing and vitriol needed.

I'll make sure the GoPro captures my final station meltdown.

Probably by the end of the week.

To see it from their view. (Not that I agree or endorse it) a full size bike is a big awkward shape to fit into a narrow tube shaped vehicle that is designed to maximise seating space over access/egress facility. It also has cables and sticky out handlebars that can get caught by people and cause it to fall onto them, it has a nasty oily chain & generally may be wet or dirty -any of which can *ruin* clothes, it has sharp pointy cogs especially exposed at the rear and often pedals with teeth that can take off skin or give you a nasty bruise if banged into - all things that an irate punter would be shouting at some poor train employee over and very likely demanding money to replace or dry clean clothes and/or free travel as compensation.

Unless (even?) bagged a folder can tick several of the 'will prompt a complaint' boxes too and not be popular with the operators and a management that is probably not stuffed with cyclists nor those sympathetic to our needs over those of the vast majority of non cycling passengers

They've created a problem by poor design affecting a, let's be honest, very small part of their customer base and mitigate it by trying to discourage/remove multi modal travel unless it suits them or they are pre warned about it.

That's fine. If they don't want bikes on their trains, I have no problem with that.

I use to commute 5days a week on trans pennine train... Some part of the journey saw upto 3-4 other cycles.
None of us booked them on, and no one blinked an eye at it.

Some times even more were on and we could just stand with them in the door spaces in other carriges.

I guess a lot of it comes down to the ticket office and the conductor.

If you travel early, or on an empty line, you are fine.

Also the deployment of Storm Troopers has only happened in the last couple of months since they upgraded the trains.

Don't suppose Northern Rail is an option? Just guessing - probably the slow trains :sad:. But they are generally very good with bikes and cyclists. (A frequent and happy user :smile:)

Not an option for me, sadly.

And I don't think it can hurt to treat the staff as human beings - saying "good morning" & "thanks" instead of waving your ticket in their direction while absorbed in your mobile phone.

I'm always polite for staff no matter how awkward they are. The exception was the train conductor on a Virgin Pendolino who forgot to let me off at my station. For the second day running.

I've never had a problem with a bike on a train but I don't use them much. However, some of the ticket office staff I met out East after a few night rides really should be sent to a taxidermist and displayed in a JobsWorth Museum.

Don't get me started. However, the bloke that told me to take my bike off because of weight limits was 5 foot, fat and ginger. Not sure people would pay to see that.

I've never had a problem with a bike on a train, and I use them a lot - but almost always outside the rush hours. As this is Commuting, isn't the problem that bikes just aren't very welcome at peak times, in the same way that people mutter with annoyance at large buggies and suitcases on wheels when trains are rammed?

Pretty much this. But my problem is that I get to the Station at 1710. How long do I wait for a train? FTP are always full now and the first Virgin train is always full. This means it's 2036 before I even get a shot at getting on. :laugh:

I don't know if this is relevant information but it's mostly down to train/carriage types. I can tell you without a shadow of doubt that the trans pennine stopping train from sheffield to Manchester will take bikes without reservation. Both ends of the train have bike areas, and you can also fit them in the disabled areas if needs be.

The new trains have room for 2 bikes. The Virgin 6 mile long Pendelino has room for 4.

What a joke.
 
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IHateTrains

IHateTrains

New Member
UPDATE

I have managed to get hold of some reservation tickets for a weeks worth of journeys (the length of my season ticket).

However, I have just spotted this on the website:

We recommend that you make a reservation to carry your cycle on board. However to ensure the comfort and safety of customers, we cannot guarantee that space will always be available for your cycle and this will be at the conductor’s discretion.

I'll wage anyone a tenner that when I turn up tonight I won't be allowed on even with a reservation.
 
If you want to turn up to the train and go, without booking, folding bikes are the way forward. Bromptons fold smaller, but their 16in wheels mean they're best suited to short commutes.

I ride a Bike Friday New World Tourist with 20in wheels. I've never had any problem getting it on a train, even including Eurostar; sure, it won't fold as small as a Brompton, but it still fits in the end-of-carriage luggage racks. There's a couple of Bike Fridays on eBay at the moment - I bought mine secondhand for £350.

Better still, the Dahon Carry-On Cover lets you carry it over your shoulder, and folds into a neat saddlebag - good enough for Eurostar, TGV and ICE.

Useful guides to carrying bikes on trains here (cycle.travel) and here (atob.org.uk).
 

Learnincurve

Senior Member
Location
Chesterfield
The new trains have room for 2 bikes. The Virgin 6 mile long Pendelino has room for 4.

This particular train is special, I've seen 6 or 7 bikes easily fit on it at one time before, 2 of them being mine. I would imagine the conductor would stop the bike packing at peak times, but off peak it's our train now.
 

KneesUp

Guru
It's because the government sees trains as a business not a public service. Or rather, they see trains (and buses) as offering a service only to the people who use them, which is a fallacy.

The more people use the train, the better off we all are. If the OP ends up commuting by car - as seems likely - we will all live in a more polluted world and there will be longer traffic jams. Longer term, the OP is more likely to be unhealthy in some way that costs the NHS (remember that?) - and by extension all of us - money and his friends and relatives some happiness.

The principle of pricing is that the person(s) who benefit should pay. By falling for the fallacy that only people on the train benefit from the train, the government has produced via privitisation, a train service that is too expensive, and doesn't cater well enough for people who would otherwise be naturally inclined to use it, such as cyclists.

If you don't fall for the fallacy that the only beneficiary of train travel is the person travelling by train it becomes immediately obvious that it should be subsidised - and run not as a profit making enterprise but as a public service.

Personally I'd be happy if a little bit of my tax went to making there be more room for bikes on trains rather than on treating people for obesity and diabetes because they traveled everywhere by car.

Public transport operatives seem to have adopted the 'oooh it's dead comfy and relaxing and really fast' line to promote their services - but public transport is always going to be a bit less convenient that going by car. I semi-regularly go to London, and I always drive because although the train takes less time to get from my station to a station in London than it would take me to drive, the difference in time to get from my house to the place in London I want to get to is minimal. And the car runs from my house on a timetable that suits me, and has a stereo I control. And - get this - it's cheaper. Who is going to pay more for something less convenient?

The marketing message should be 'It's so cheap you'd be an idiot to travel any other way" - and all it would take is a few quid each now (instead a few quid each later on remedial health treatment) and we'd have a better, less polluted world.

But then how would train operating companies keep their shareholders happy if that happened, eh? ...
 
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OP
IHateTrains

IHateTrains

New Member
If you want to turn up to the train and go, without booking, folding bikes are the way forward. Bromptons fold smaller, but their 16in wheels mean they're best suited to short commutes.

I ride a Bike Friday New World Tourist with 20in wheels. I've never had any problem getting it on a train, even including Eurostar; sure, it won't fold as small as a Brompton, but it still fits in the end-of-carriage luggage racks. There's a couple of Bike Fridays on eBay at the moment - I bought mine secondhand for £350.

Better still, the Dahon Carry-On Cover lets you carry it over your shoulder, and folds into a neat saddlebag - good enough for Eurostar, TGV and ICE.

Useful guides to carrying bikes on trains here (cycle.travel) and here (atob.org.uk).

Interesting that, especially the latter link. I notice some operators have room for 20+ bikes but charge for the privilege. I would be happy with that.

Those bikes seem nice but would be impractical for me. I ideally need a full-size foldable bike, but it seems the only ones under £300 are the Chinese monkey metal specials.

It's because the government sees trains as a business not a public service. Or rather, they see trains (and buses) as offering a service only to the people who use them, which is a fallacy.

The more people use the train, the better off we all are. If the OP ends up commuting by car - as seems likely - we will all live in a more polluted world and there will be longer traffic jams. Longer term, the OP is more likely to be unhealthy in some way that costs the NHS (remember that?) - and by extension all of us - money and his friends and relatives some happiness.

The principle of pricing is that the person(s) who benefit should pay. By falling for the fallacy that only people on the train benefit from the train, the government has produced via privitisation, a train service that is too expensive, and doesn't cater well enough for people who would otherwise be naturally inclined to use it, such as cyclists.

If you don't fall for the fallacy that the only beneficiary of train travel is the person travelling by train it becomes immediately obvious that it should be subsidised - and run not as a profit making enterprise but as a public service.

Personally I'd be happy if a little bit of my tax went to making there be more room for bikes on trains rather than on treating people for obesity and diabetes because they traveled everywhere by car.

Public transport operatives seem to have adopted the 'oooh it's dead comfy and relaxing and really fast' line to promote their services - but public transport is always going to be a bit less convenient that going by car. I semi-regularly go to London, and I always drive because although the train takes less time to get from my station to a station in London than it would take me to drive, the difference in time to get from my house to the place in London I want to get to is minimal. And the car runs from my house on a timetable that suits me, and has a stereo I control. And - get this - it's cheaper. Who is going to pay more for something less convenient?

The marketing message should be 'It's so cheap you'd be an idiot to travel any other way" - and all it would take is a few quid each now (instead a few quid each later on remedial health treatment) and we'd have a better, less polluted world.

But then how would train operating companies keep their shareholders happy if that happened, eh? ...

Not much I can add to that.

Think I'll quote it when I'm winging to my MP next week.
 

vickster

Legendary Member
Why not ride the bike rather than taking the train :whistle: Benefits all round...especially if you are late anyhow

The rules about taking full size bikes on trains around London at peak times are very clear

Personally I'd be more up in arms about the 'No bikes aloud' signage ...disgraceful
 

KneesUp

Guru
Why not ride the bike rather than taking the train :whistle: Benefits all round...especially if you are late anyhow

The rules about taking full size bikes on trains around London at peak times are very clear

l
And clearly wrong. I've commuted in South London (in fact I used to work in Sutton) so I know how crowded the trains are but they don't have to be that way - they could stick a modern day equivalent of a guard's van on.
 
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OP
IHateTrains

IHateTrains

New Member
Why not ride the bike rather than taking the train :whistle: Benefits all round...especially if you are late anyhow

The rules about taking full size bikes on trains around London at peak times are very clear

Personally I'd be more up in arms about the 'No bikes aloud' signage ...disgraceful

I don't want to be late though. Like I said, I only get to see my lad for one hour of the day as it is. It's either bike and train or the car.

I'm sure the signs around London are very clear, but I live in the black and white, flat cap world outside the capital.
 
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