Will the union court win over holiday pay really make any difference?

[cyberknight]

As the title says ,
Unite has won a court case where if you are required to work regular overtime you should get it in your holiday pay rather than just your basic salary .

"People obliged to work overtime should have overtime pay and other bonuses and allowances included in their holiday pay. "
“Employers will now have to include overtime in calculating holiday pay, and those that don’t should be under no illusion that Unite will fight to ensure that our members receive their full entitlement."
http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/unite-secures-ground-breaking-tribunal-victory-over-holiday-pay/

I wonder how this will be applied and how they will calculate it, how will they convince employers to pay it and how far will they back date it ?Its of interest to me as we are expected to work fluctuating levels of overtime based on planned production targets, breakdowns etc with the actual amount you need to do not called every day untill just over 1 hour before normal home time .

 

[stephec]

A place I worked at has been doing this for the last twenty years.

Everyone used to do around six to ten hours overtime a week, and argued that they missed the overtime pay when they were on holiday, so a formula was calculated based on the average amount of overtime you worked.

That formula was then applied to your pay when you were on holiday, to come up with a figure that was stored up all year and paid out as a lump sum at Christmas.

 

[Pumpkin the robot]

I got this as part of my pay negotiations last year. They agreed to pay me an average of the 4 weeks pay before the holiday was booked for.

 

[subaqua]

when i was on the tools and hourly paid under the JIB and the NACEI agreements i got 7.5 hours per day for holiday pay. we were paid 12 hours for working 10 and anything above the 37.5 hours a week was at time and a half. i thought that was fair. a lot of the guys working on site now get a similar deal.

can see a lot of deals being changed and people getting 10 hours money for 10 hours work and losing overall.

 

[bikingdad90]

I don't really understand this, can someone explain please?

In the private sector many salaried employees work overtime without pay, they just get a flat salary each month, even when they take holiday.

In other jobs which pay overtime, you get a premium paid for the overtime worked but a flat salary when you don't do any.

How come the Union is now saying you should receive a higher payment for choosing to have a holiday as my understanding is you have forfeited your right to do overtime as you want a holiday so should only receive a salary.

To be fair across the board do salaried workers need an uplift in salary to be like for like also?

 

[potsy]

My last job had something similar in that you got a percentage of any extra 'shift pay' you accrued due to working overtime, it wasn't much but meant you got more than your normal pay for holidays.

 

[buggi]

Personally i don't think its right to force employers to do this. If you refused to do overtime and your employer sacked you surely you would be able to take them to tribunal bcoz you are only contracted for, say, 40 hours per week. So how can you then say it works the other way? No one is obliged to do overtime bcoz by definition, it's time worked over and above your contracted hours ?? I've mostly worked in offices, so always been salaried, but I've also worked in a well known supermarket where overtime was offered but the company never had a right to make me work and couldn't sack me if I didn't. Surely that applies everywhere? Or am I wrong?

 

[buggi]

Also as overtime is usually paid at a higher rate, the employee already gets his dues whereas the employer has to pay more out for the hours worked extra. I don't think the unions have thought this through coz they might find its cheaper for the company to just employ extra people and then everyone loses.

 

[IncoherentJeff]

As I understand it, extra overtime pay is to compensate you for loss of personal time.

I wouldn't expect it when I'm on holiday as I'm not working the extra hours. Just as I used to get the basic rate and no shift allowance when on holiday.

I can see this being used by some of my previous employers as an excuse to reduce overtime by current employees and pick up the slack where possible with zero hour contractors. Time will tell I guess.

Also I think more companies will switch to banked hours, so they can send you home if your unable to perform your usual job (equipment breakdowns etc) then you must work back those hours as unpaid overtime when is suits the business. Not fun when you've banked significant hours and can also feel like your stuck in your job as you'd have to payback any money owed if you leave.

 

[EltonFrog]

I'm self unemployed so I don't care.

 

[hopless500]

I work 3 days a week, and my contracted hours are 7.30 a day, but I always do at least 8.30. And have done for years. Those extra 3 hours a week being deducted when you're on holiday for a couple of weeks, do make a difference. So I am quite happy with the result. Be even better if I can put a back pay claim in

 

[MarkF]

Bad and ill thought out claim by the union.

Now they have given businesses a reason to explore the options to reduce future claims, expect reduced over time for those that have become used to it and view it as "normal" cash. Expect more bank (as and when) staff to be employed to cover over time hours at reduced rates.

 

[Venod]

I am a bit perplexed by this ruling, I always regarded overtime as voluntary ie if you were asked to work over you could always refuse, if there was no overtime available you couldn't ask to work.I presume this ruling is aimed at employers who expect people to work over and above their contracted hours and if the employee disagrees with this he is out ( which is wrong but pressure is applied for the employee to work the extra hours and if that doesn't work he is got rid of by other means)

 

[raleighnut]

It depends if overtime is 'voluntary' or expected, a lot of employers expect their staff to work extra hours to make their wage liveable and should be paid as much when on holiday.

 

[marknotgeorge]

I don't really understand this, can someone explain please?

In the private sector many salaried employees work overtime without pay, they just get a flat salary each month, even when they take holiday.

In other jobs which pay overtime, you get a premium paid for the overtime worked but a flat salary when you don't do any.

How come the Union is now saying you should receive a higher payment for choosing to have a holiday as my understanding is you have forfeited your right to do overtime as you want a holiday so should only receive a salary.

To be fair across the board do salaried workers need an uplift in salary to be like for like also?

AS I understand holiday pay entitlement (it's been a while since did payroll at college), statutory holiday pay is 5.6 weeks, up to a maximum of 28 days. A week of holiday pay is an average of the last 12 weeks wages (from the government's website, excluding non-guaranteed overtime). I think the union has argued that overtime should be included in the calculation of the 12-week average if you regularly work overtime. How this will work regarding back-dated pay, and like @cyberknight at Toymota, where overtime can vary, but you're contracted to do it if it's called, I don't know.