World Road race quotas

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rich p

ridiculous old lush
Location
Brighton
Can anyone explain to me why these countries ( Morocco, Colombia, Venezuela, Islamic Republic of Iran, Poland, Portugal, Ukraine, Denmark) have got 6 riders while GB has only 3.

I know we haven't done too well this year apart from Cav but it seems a bit odd to my untrained eye.
 
Can anyone explain to me why these countries ( Morocco, Colombia, Venezuela, Islamic Republic of Iran, Poland, Portugal, Ukraine, Denmark) have got 6 riders while GB has only 3.

I know we haven't done too well this year apart from Cav but it seems a bit odd to my untrained eye.
Is there some sort of region based qualification system?
 

zizou

Veteran
It is a bit complicated how it is calculated - i maybe wrong but i think the top 10 countries are ranked with more emphasis on performance in the classics and grand tours and then if you fall outside that top ten then the qualification focuses more on points gained from the regional tours (like the European tour and Asia tour).

GB managed to get into the top 10 last year thanks to Cav (TdF, Giro and Milan-SanRemo) and Wiggens (TdF) but as they haven't been able to amass enough points to make it into the top 10 this year the qualification then is reliant on points in the European tour and the results there have been quite poor. The likes of Iran on the other hand will have got alot of points in the Asian tour.
 

adscrim

Veteran
Location
Perth
There is a reasonable explanation here - there is a regional element for those who are not in the top 10 world rankings (where GB were last year).
 

Flying_Monkey

Recyclist
Location
Odawa
Just to comment on three - Colombia, Venezuala and Iran all have very strong cyclists and a lot of them racing at the top continental levels. And the races that take place in South America, for example, are extraordinarily tough (as the the Europeans who have gone over to race them have found).
 

zimzum42

Legendary Member
In some ways it's not dissimilar to running the World Cup finals group stages by region and then having the subsequent knock-out games organized by region too.

It would mean minor countries would have a better chance of getting close to the finals, but would deny some of the best teams in the world the same opportunity

I'm not suggesting that these guys don't ride hard, or aren't good racers, but it's a shame that some of the top riders in the world won't get to race...
 

Keith Oates

Janner
Location
Penarth, Wales
On the face of it Cav would appear to be at a bit of an extra disadvantage with this year's quota of only three riders but if he does win it will make it all the more satisfying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
OP
OP
rich p

rich p

ridiculous old lush
Location
Brighton
Just to comment on three - Colombia, Venezuala and Iran all have very strong cyclists and a lot of them racing at the top continental levels. And the races that take place in South America, for example, are extraordinarily tough (as the the Europeans who have gone over to race them have found).

I'm not disputing that they may have some good riders but that the system is anomylous. Ben Swift's win in the Tour of Picardie and ussell Downing's in the T of Walonnie don't count as they are Pro Continental races and as they ride for Pro Tour teams!

After the UCI introduced the Pro Tour their ranking system was dropped but using that criteria and including all races in the calendar, GB would rank 12th and therefore have 6 riders,
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/cqRankingCountry.asp?current=1

Seeems fairer to me but hey ho!
As far as I can recall none or one of the GB riders finished the race last year when we had 9.
 

Flying_Monkey

Recyclist
Location
Odawa
I'm not disputing that they may have some good riders but that the system is anomylous. Ben Swift's win in the Tour of Picardie and ussell Downing's in the T of Walonnie don't count as they are Pro Continental races and as they ride for Pro Tour teams!

After the UCI introduced the Pro Tour their ranking system was dropped but using that criteria and including all races in the calendar, GB would rank 12th and therefore have 6 riders,
http://www.cqranking...y.asp?current=1

Seeems fairer to me but hey ho!
As far as I can recall none or one of the GB riders finished the race last year when we had 9.

I would agree with that. But actually, as far as I am concerned, they should just abandon the 'calculations' as they are now, and have a set maximum squad number for all qualifying nations, of say, 5. And the qualification should be decided simply on race results in all the major Pro-Tour and Continental races regardless of the status of the rider, as you suggest. Having different numbers in squads is ridiculous, if it is to be genuine international competition. The other alternative is simply to abandon the nationality element and make qualification based on individual riders' results. You'd get the 'best riders' but it would be even more skewed and you'd get de facto national squads anyway.
 

oldroadman

Veteran
Location
Ubique
I would agree with that. But actually, as far as I am concerned, they should just abandon the 'calculations' as they are now, and have a set maximum squad number for all qualifying nations, of say, 5. And the qualification should be decided simply on race results in all the major Pro-Tour and Continental races regardless of the status of the rider, as you suggest. Having different numbers in squads is ridiculous, if it is to be genuine international competition. The other alternative is simply to abandon the nationality element and make qualification based on individual riders' results. You'd get the 'best riders' but it would be even more skewed and you'd get de facto national squads anyway.

Er, maybe, but at pro level individual racing simply does not happen. Individual results only matter to a team in that the protected rider delivers, and domestiques ride themselves into the ground for that. So if they were measured individually, they might be less inclined to do so.
Whilst to represent your country might be an honour, it does not pay the bills and doing your job in a team does. Which would you choose?

On the system, it does skew representation unreasonably, as most of the best GB riders are in ProTour squads (as they should be), it means only ProTour races count for ranking points, and Sky (for instance) have hardly had an outstanding season. Thus are some of the best countries disadvantaged against nations who only operate at continental level, where the points gained there count. So we have three GB riders and six (with all due respect) lower quality Iranians in the biggest one-day race. How daft is that.
The solution which seems might work is to simply divide the number of nations entering into 200 (field size maximum). Thus if 32 countries want to ride it would be six riders each, plus a space for the current champion, 193 riders. Does this seem sensible? If the countries entering HAD to have ProContinental or Pro Teams registered (say a minimum of 3) then the numbers would work. Even 40 countries would get 5 riders each (plus one (not counted) for current chanpion, so 201 absolute top. Look back and see how many countries ride, just look at the convoy. Even then snmaller teams lose out, as those with 9 riders go in the first draw, 6 riders in the second draw, others in the third draw. So GB will probably be car 29 or some other useless place.
The whole system needs a proper review, but then UCI has never worried about skewing the rules when it suits!
 

Flying_Monkey

Recyclist
Location
Odawa
The solution which seems might work is to simply divide the number of nations entering into 200 (field size maximum). Thus if 32 countries want to ride it would be six riders each, plus a space for the current champion, 193 riders. Does this seem sensible? If the countries entering HAD to have ProContinental or Pro Teams registered (say a minimum of 3) then the numbers would work. Even 40 countries would get 5 riders each (plus one (not counted) for current chanpion, so 201 absolute top. Look back and see how many countries ride, just look at the convoy. Even then snmaller teams lose out, as those with 9 riders go in the first draw, 6 riders in the second draw, others in the third draw. So GB will probably be car 29 or some other useless place.
The whole system needs a proper review, but then UCI has never worried about skewing the rules when it suits!

That's a better worked out version of what I was suggesting - so I would certainly agree.
 
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