Would you be done for assault?

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Cycling Dan

Cycling Dan

Cycle Crazy
The video he was talking about isn't the one Matt posted, it's some Lee Nelson lookalike stood right up in the guys face, fist clenched and raised threatening to punch him (on the original iplayer link).

I think backing out of it like the guy did in the video is by far the best idea. I think given the threat on you, you're allowed to defend yourself enough to get away, not until the guy is broken and unconcious "neutralized" in a heap on the floor. Im not sure how you'd hit someone in the face with a bike in that situation :ohmy:
well kicking them in the balls would put them on thir knees or bend over then you swipe them with the bike :biggrin:
Also the best idea well that's easy to say as the guy walked away, what if he didnt and your saying sorry sorry blar blar. Then he pummels you. Is it the best choice then.
 

gaz

Cycle Camera TV
Location
South Croydon



Assaulting someone does not require you to punch or push them.
 

HovR

Über Member
Location
Plymouth
I'm suprised no one has mentioned this yet, but it would be far better to just get out of the situation rather than plan how you're going to knock him out.

In this example the man could be seen exiting his car and walking very purposefully towards the cyclist from a long way off. I'd have just turned around and cycled away - It's not worth getting in a fight over.
 

MrJamie

Oaf on a Bike
well kicking them in the balls would put them on thir knees or bend over then you swipe them with the bike :biggrin:
Also the best idea well that's easy to say as the guy walked away, what if he didnt and your saying sorry sorry blar blar. Then he pummels you. Is it the best choice then.
Agreed and I think thats the point, you don't know what will happen or what the best course of action is at the time because the other person is an unknown entity. As CopperCyclist says, you can't really remove the threat completely with a proportionate response, so you kinda have to leave yourself open to further retaliation. I think for those of us who haven't had any self-defence training, its pretty dangerous to *try* to hit someone and wait and see how it unfolds. In reality though these things never go like you plan when you have a few minutes behind a keyboard to plan it out.

Maybe the police guys on here can clarify if im talking nonsense, but i think theres also something dodgy legally about pre-planning to use a general object as a weapon, such as your bike, lock, aerosol cans etc. Like its okay if you grab it spur of the moment, but if you say that you keep it to hand incase you need to defend yourself then you can get in lot of trouble for carrying a weapon :ohmy:
 

Bman

Guru
Location
Herts.
Agreed and I think thats the point, you don't know what will happen or what the best course of action is at the time because the other person is an unknown entity. As CopperCyclist says, you can't really remove the threat completely with a proportionate response, so you kinda have to leave yourself open to further retaliation. I think for those of us who haven't had any self-defence training, its pretty dangerous to *try* to hit someone and wait and see how it unfolds. In reality though these things never go like you plan when you have a few minutes behind a keyboard to plan it out.

Maybe the police guys on here can clarify if im talking nonsense, but i think theres also something dodgy legally about pre-planning to use a general object as a weapon, such as your bike, lock, aerosol cans etc. Like its okay if you grab it spur of the moment, but if you say that you keep it to hand incase you need to defend yourself then you can get in lot of trouble for carrying a weapon :ohmy:

Suppose you have just made me think about using my D-lock as a weapon (in self defence of course). Does that mean I have to stop carrying it?
 

lulubel

Über Member
Location
Malaga, Spain
I'm suprised no one has mentioned this yet, but it would be far better to just get out of the situation rather than plan how you're going to knock him out.

In this example the man could be seen exiting his car and walking very purposefully towards the cyclist from a long way off. I'd have just turned around and cycled away - It's not worth getting in a fight over.

In that situation, I would definitely have done this, but in a situation where I couldn't get away, I would defend myself, and since I'm a small woman, I wouldn't hesitate to grab and use any weapon that was to hand.

We only watched a little bit of the BBC programme because we both agreed it was a combination of scaremongering and inciting aggravation, but one thing I did see was a cyclist who was pushed to the ground by a motorist, and there were comments about him being afraid the man was going to move in and start kicking him when he was on the ground. My immediate reaction was to say he should lash out with his feet as the man came towards him. I think you could do an awful lot of damage with road cleats, and since you're on the ground, no-one could argue that it wasn't self defence.
 

Vikeonabike

CC Neighbourhood Police Constable
If you whack a guy with a bike you would probably lose the self defence argument. That's far too much to be honest.

I wouldn't agree, depends how it's done, but using a bike to defend yourself is actually a good idea!

Modern!
dsc06347.jpg


And the ancient!

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jimmy_fatwing/SelfProtection/cycle.htm
 
Suppose you have just made me think about using my D-lock as a weapon (in self defence of course). Does that mean I have to stop carrying it?

No. It just means you have to stop thinking about using it as a weapon, and not use it as one!

In the real world though, you just have to not say 'Thats why I was carrying it' when the police turn up.

Also, to be at the point where you can legally hit someone with a D Lock, they are going to be offering you violence of such severity that the only sensible option for you is to look for an escape route rather than a fighting option.
 

ComedyPilot

Secret Lemonade Drinker
You cannot know the true mindset and intent of an aggressor. They are unpredictable and dangerous. As someone who has done his fair share of self defence, and a good deal of public order/domestic intervention, I can whole heartedly tell you that walking away is by far the best option.

Even with all my training and experience I can't know exactly what an aggressive lunatic will do, so I walk. Simple.
 

Crankarm

Guru
Location
Nr Cambridge
Whoa! I thought there was a very strong likelihood that the guy in the white shirt agressively approaching the cyclist was going to strike him. Shouting swearing, threats, raised arm and clenched fist, lots of agression and then this man pushed the cyclist which is an assault. So the cyclist would legally have been able to defend himself whether this would have been the best course of action is debatable. It was likely the cyclist's head cam was seen by the yob which saved him from a beating. Standing astride your bike at the side of a busy road while some nutter rants and tries to assault you has the possibility to escalate into a really dreadful life changing situation. Those who fantasize about hitting him with something ie bike lock, dream on. The cyclist was astride his bike probably standing on cleats trying not to drop his bike. How the hell is he going to grab a D lock, keep him and his bike upright and swing a heavy D-lock? More likely the yob would interpret it as an attack, grab it and use it on the cyclist, killing him or head butting him as he was very close to the cyclist. So killed with your own D-lock. Ghastly.

As some have said, riding off would have been the best course of action. Always know where your escape routes are and be prepared to use them. What is the point of standing up to a nutter like this and risk being injured, stabbed, shot, killed? The guy clearly has issues.

I know the police are useless but I hope this footage is now being examined by them with a view to prosecution as this yob has committed public order offences as well as assaulting the cyclist. He did push him and raise his clenched fist.

The cyclist himself has a bit of an attitude as well by shouting, ranting at passing cars which he believes have endangered him by coming too close which unsurprsingly some motorists don't take too kindly to. I would say that the cyclist needs to analyse how he rides on the roads to ensure he stays alive. It is survival out their not some sort of game. Nutters have no regard for manners, rules or laws. They believe might is right. It is a respect thing. If you are involved in a situation that escalates, turns bad then, well, the consequences don't bare thinking about.

And if you were to defend yourself against the yob that was subsequently viewed as excessive, then you might yourself be charged with and convicted of assault, abh or gbh, even murder. There was the incident a couple of years ago in Hove, Sussex iirc where a roadie out for a ride with his mates allegedly struck a motorist who he believed had allegedly seriously endangered him and his fellow riders with a very poor standard of driving. The motorist stopped got out of his vehicle, an altercation took place and the driver was then allegedly struck. I believe the driver died from his injuries and the cyclist was then charged with manslaughter or murder. Have not heard what happened to this cyclist. So instead of being a victim of road rage you become a perpetrator and could face a long stretch in prison if convicted of a serious offence.
 
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