Yet another 'which DSLR' question

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

Without wanting to throw any more complications into the picture or photo so to speak... are you aware of the differences between RAW & JEPG?

I ask because once upon a time I was totally convinced that I would never be heavily into photography either - I was OK at it, but just that. When digital came along for me, it was a revelation and all my early shots were in JPEG format. no further editting needed. The picture I took out of the camera off the card was the end result. If I had screwed up any of the settings, that was it. Only so much 'information' can be recovered from a JPEG file. I was finally convinced to experiment with RAW on another forum which helped me learn so much more and get so much more from my photos. I now only shoot in RAW.

The reason I tell you this? well it is simple. Last time I checked (and I will admit it was roughly 2 years ago) Nikon still charged for their software to convert their RAW files to JPEG files, or you could purchase a 3rd party piece of software to do it for you. Canon provide a very good piece of software free of charge with all their cameras capable of taking RAW. Each time they release an update for it, (you have to check manually and update it manually) they add new features. All my photos, are processed using this free software, nothing more.

Canon lenses:
You have 2 main ones that will be on interest to yourself - there are others. There is the EF-S range which is deigned for the APS-C sensor cameras - the ones you are looking at, and then there is the EF range which is completely interchangable with both the APS-C and full frame sensor cameras like mine. What is not an option is the full frame camera and the EF-S so any EF-S lenses have to stay with camera bodies such as the EOS 600D, 1100D, 40D, etc.

There is also the EOS M series camera & lenses which I think someone else has touched on. It is of interest to me and something I have been keeping an eye on because the Canon Powershot G12 which is my 'little camera' will need replacing in the next few years and this new entry which arrived just after I set out on my aborted world tour would have offered me more options than the Powershot G11 I purchased at the time (which was replaced on tour as with the G12). The EOS-M has some dedicated lenses, but also can take the EF-S & EF lenses with an adaptor. More importantly from a landscape point of view, and it will not take long for you to come to realise this, it can take filters which are one of the main additions (and costs) to camera equipment for landscape photographers. It is an interesting addition to their collection and something I will be keeping a keen eye on.

 

[Spinney]

satnav - is it best to use a filter on the camera, or to rely on post processing to fiddle with any filter effects you might want? The latter seems to be a more flexible approach to me.

[PS - looks to be some lovely shots in your link - will peruse with a cuppa soon!]

 

[P.H]

You can search Flicker by camera model, that isn't going to help you choose, but should give a demonstration that it's far more about the photographer than the equipment. At your price point you will get a very capable camera, pros and cons to all of them of course, but image quality shouldn't be lacking. The things that swayed me were;
Would I carry it everywhere I wanted
What did it feel like in my hands
Were the controls simple and straightforward
Did it have a easy and reliable auto mode (I rarely use it, but I'm glad it's there)
Would it look out of place in the situations I'd use it, people do react differently when you point different cameras at them.
Availability of lenses and accessories, and size and cost of same.
I found M4/3 was the best compromise for me, compared to something with a bigger sensor I have lost a little in image quality, most noticeably depth of field control, however I've kept more photos from it in the last 14 months than I did in the 4 years I had a DSLR.

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

@Spinney definitely on the camera for filters regarding landscape work.
If you google neutral density filters and graduated neutral density filters you will see what I mean.
Polarising filters still can not be truely replicated using post production work and graduated ND filters allow you to balance the light a camera can record. Cameras still only manage to record 5 stops of light compared to the human eye of 13 stops. Don't worry about what a stop is it's the 5:13 bit that is important. With a camera you only get that information recorded the rest is simply over exposed or underexposed and White/black accordingly. Detail the human eye can see is lost digitally and can not be recovered. So. Filters such as used in landscape work allow you to balance the light and pull it back into the range a camera can record and show. That obviously needs to be done before raking the shot.

I have to confess my website needs some work and updating. A lot of my recent and better work is not there but currently my eyesight is not up to it. Hopefully next week the NHS will agree to the op I need and I will be able to get on with it afterwards!

 

[Spinney]

Thanks @SatNavSaysStraightOn - the dynamic range of the camera didn't occur to me!
I have been experimenting with RAW, but not much yet.

Hope the NHS sorts you out!

 

[coffeejo]

Right then, a little challenge, since you've blown the field wide open and taken most of my brain capacity with it

Bearing in mind the budget and my photographic interests (rural landscapes, amniminals etc), what camera and LENSES would you suggest I look at? Actually, less interested in the specific camera model, more the range and the LENSES - and am more than happy to go with the suggestion of investing on good lenses with an older camera for now.

Just trying to get some ideas and narrow the choices.

 

[Cyclist33]

http://www.jessops.com/online.store...h-10-30mm-and-30-110mm-lenses-87688/show.html

This would give you a telephoto of 11x. I think the 35mm equivalent would be 28mm - 300mm focal lengths.

Great camera with ultra quick autofocus. Pretty compact. Viewfinder built-in.

My Sony NEX cost £310, but it was RRP of £550. That was with the kit lens of 18-55mm. Equivalent to 27 - 82mm on a 35mm camera. And a pancake lens at 16mm, so a pretty wide angle of 24mm equivalent. Good for landscapes. I spent another £100 on a 0.75x wide converter which brings the focal length to 18mm equivalent. Very wide! Awesome for landscapes. I would love a good telephoto lens but actually I like getting close to wildlife where possible and the wide and ultra-wide lenses give an interesting, weird perspective on close-up subjects. Depends what you want, really.

 

[Deleted member 23692]

I had a play with an Olympus Pen (CCS) last night, and it's a very capable, compact, lightweight camera that takes very good photos all things considered. However having to go via the menu to access all the time to access anything other than basic point and shoot settings is downright frustrating. Simple stuff like changing aperture or shutter speed, which can be done instantly and without taking your eye away from the viewfinder on a DSLR, are nothing more that distracting button sequences on the Pen.

Having said that they aren't really aimed at those who want to develop their photography skills. They are just the next step in bridge camera development IMO. Having such long winded manual controls means they will rarely get used and/or they will quickly become frustrating.

 

[pplpilot]

I had a play with an Olympus Pen (CCS) last night, and it's a very capable, compact, lightweight camera that takes very good photos all things considered. However having to go via the menu to access all the time to access anything other than basic point and shoot settings is downright frustrating. Simple stuff like changing aperture or shutter speed, which can be done instantly and without taking your eye away from the viewfinder on a DSLR, are nothing more that distracting button sequences on the Pen.

Having said that they aren't really aimed at those who want to develop their photography skills. They are just the next step in bridge camera development IMO. Having such long winded manual controls means they will rarely get used and/or they will quickly become frustrating.

Dunno which pen you were looking at but my pen ep3 has all the control you need on the outside and all the other buttons can be set to perform whatever task you want. I can use mine like an slr in manual if i want to.

 

[Deleted member 23692]

T'was a E-PL3 and everything was controlled via a single wee 5 way rocker cum scroll wheel. I just found it fiddly and counter-intuitive, and no easier to use than that on my Panasonic bridge. There's a big difference in handling between these and the dedicated controls on SLRs.

I'm not knocking the CCS cameras as they are very capable and more than satisfy a large chunk of the photographic market, but personal I'd rather have something I can grow into than something I will quickly grow out of... as I did with the Panasonic.

 

[P.H]

I'm not knocking the CCS cameras as they are very capable and more than satisfy a large chunk of the photographic market, but personal I'd rather have something I can grow into than something I will quickly grow out of... as I did with the Panasonic.

To try one CSC and judge them all makes no sense at all. Some of them are indeed aimed at getting the benefits of a larger sensor into the smallest package possible and compromises are involved. These cameras are as you say aimed at those stepping up from a point and shoot to something better, and they fulfill that role well. But if you think that covers the whole CSC range I think you're mistaken. Check out some of these cameras, Panasinic GX1, Panasonic GH3, Olympus OMD, Sony NEX 7, Fuji X-Pro, I can't believe that anyone who actually looked at the capabilities of those cameras could dismiss them.

EDIT - maybe I should put up or shut up! Here's my Flicker account, I don't think I've yet used anything like the full potential of my Panasonic GX1, but I hope it gives some idea of it's capabilities.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/phbike/

 

[byegad]

I can and do change the aperture on my cameras with ease. It's a matter of using the 'up' press on the control wheel then either up or down to change aperture, both cameras have a live programme capability which at a press of the central button bring up a screen with aperture ISO and about 12 more items that you can select and change. My better EPL5 has a few extra controls dials/buttons on the back compared to my EPM1, but everything you can change on a DSLR can be changed on either PEN. I have met comments like those above from DSLR users about how a CSC can't change certain settings and it is frankly plain wrong. The 'difficulty' is that you need to know the menu to access some of the esoteric things, once you are familiar with where to find the function, it is there.

 

[Doseone]

@coffeejo
How's the camera shopping going? Have you managed to have a play with a few yet?

 

[coffeejo]

@coffeejo
How's the camera shopping going? Have you managed to have a play with a few yet?

Funnily enough, got a post brewing re: CSCs.

Went into the camera shop to look at DSLRs but they weren't particularly helpful/enthusiastic. Got put off the whole idea but then had another think about mirrorless cameras and decided that portability *is* a priority, so now have glazed eyes due to the number of reviews etc I've read.

Vaguely narrowing my preferences down, keep changing my mind re: touch screens, pretty sure I want to go for a newish model as each new one has made huge leaps forward. Keep finding myself looking (on paper anyway) at the Olympus E-PL5 and the Sony NEX 5R.

 

[Cyclist33]

my pics on here are on a sony nex 5n if thats any help!