You came out of nowhere!

[andy_wrx]

- the cyclist coming the other way towards a pinch point on a bridleway. I could see we were going to get there at the same time so (as he was going uphill) slowed right down and moved over for him. He just breezed past without even looking at me, let alone saying cheers.

OK, so the last one wasn't stupid, let alone dangerous, but I thought it was a bit rude.

Quite possibly not rude, jut unobservant and unimaginative
- you noticed you were going to arrive at the pinch-point at the same time and did something about it : you could have sped-up and nipped through before him, you could have got there at the same time and expected him to give way to you, but you decided to be couteous and slow-down to let him through as he was going uphill
- perhaps his concentration was 4ft in front of his front tyre, he didn't notice you coming, didn't notice that you'd given way...

There are lots of people who drive or ride without much observation and anticipation of the road ahead - there'll be some obstruction like a slow lorry, or someone turning or something, they'll go scooting up to it and then brake hard when they suddenly notice it, whereas they could have just eased-off earlier and it would have cleared by the time they got to it.

What pees me off is approaching a red traffic light, I ease off thinking there's no point going up hard to it and then having to stop, much easier to roll up to it and let it change and then off again - only for some inconsiderate plank to pass me and pull in front and make me stop anyway because they're in the way faffing about getting in gear and starting off again...

 

[Arch]

Edit: no hassles with weasels today though.

oh good. I've seen a weasel twice recently out on long rides, they do tend to just bolt across the road....

Not to be confused with stoats. They are stoatally different.

 

[Dan B]

Not to be confused with stoats. They are stoatally different.

Yes, weasels are weasily recognised

 

[swee'pea99]

What pees me off is approaching a red traffic light, I ease off thinking there's no point going up hard to it and then having to stop, much easier to roll up to it and let it change and then off again - only for some inconsiderate plank to pass me and pull in front and make me stop anyway because they're in the way faffing about getting in gear and starting off again...

Car in primary, me in secondary, both moseying along at no great speed on account of the queue of traffic waiting at the red light not 100 metres ahead...suddenly car behind decides to overtake, which requires heavy foot-work (this is a Golf estate, not a Ferrari) as he screams past on the RH side of the road, then again to brake and join the line of traffic waiting for the lights. Gave him a cheerful 'well that was worth it' through the open passenger window as I undertook him 10 seconds later. Plonker.

 

[Spinney]

Query from newbie
Primary and secondary ??

 

[Landslide]

Primary = middle of the lane.
Secondary = approximately where a car's kerbside wheels would be.
Gutter = anywhere to the kerbside of secondary. Avoid.

 

[Lazy-Commuter]

Quite possibly not rude, jut unobservant and unimaginative
- you noticed you were going to arrive at the pinch-point at the same time and did something about it : you could have sped-up and nipped through before him, you could have got there at the same time and expected him to give way to you, but you decided to be couteous and slow-down to let him through as he was going uphill
- perhaps his concentration was 4ft in front of his front tyre, he didn't notice you coming, didn't notice that you'd given way...

There are lots of people who drive or ride without much observation and anticipation of the road ahead - there'll be some obstruction like a slow lorry, or someone turning or something, they'll go scooting up to it and then brake hard when they suddenly notice it, whereas they could have just eased-off earlier and it would have cleared by the time they got to it.

What pees me off is approaching a red traffic light, I ease off thinking there's no point going up hard to it and then having to stop, much easier to roll up to it and let it change and then off again - only for some inconsiderate plank to pass me and pull in front and make me stop anyway because they're in the way faffing about getting in gear and starting off again...

Right enough, and normally I'd not worry .. but coming so close behind the other two incidents and in the context of this thread, especially in light of Arch's post that I was picking up on, I thought I'd include it to give an example of "all three" in a short space of time. Trying to restore balance to the Force and all that ..

As the subjects come up again .. he was an iPodded yoof chav POB on a full-suss supermarket special so I didn't really expect anything better. Not that I want to generalise or anything you understand.

 

[Lazy-Commuter]

oh good. I've seen a weasel twice recently out on long rides, they do tend to just bolt across the road....

Not to be confused with stoats. They are stoatally different.

Squirrels and moorhens are my bugbear .. the latter especially on a bit of off-road I do round a lake on the way home: they just leg it out of the undergrowth. And as for the geese when they've got thier young 'uns with them!! They can get proper aggressive.

Query from newbie
Primary and secondary ??

To add to Landslide's answer:
- Secondary is where you'd normally be riding and is, as Landslide said, about where the wheel of a car nearest to the kerb would be. It's further out than where most novices - me included - ride and makes you more visible to other road users plus gives you space to head left if someone chooses to ignore the fact that they can see you.
- Primary is further out to the white line, more where the middle of our metaphorical car would be. You tend to use that at pinch points and other dangerous bits to send a strong message to drivers of motorised vehicles that they shouldn't be overtaking you and also to try to make sure they can't.

Of course, depending on the road, you might not be able to physically prevent them from overtaking and there's always a nutter that will try to squeeze by regardless - but at least you've got space to your left to go into to avoid them.

I also tend to move into primary if I see someone on the path who might step off without looking, or as I approach a junction where a car looks like it might pull out. This is an outcrop of my motorcycle training: it's supposed to make you a bit more visible and give you more avoidance options: sometimes they'll come out a bit, spot you at the last minute and stop in a panic - you're then ready to go round them.

Just be sure there's nothing close behind / alongside you before you swing out to primary!!

 

[grhm]

Primary is further out to the white line, more where the middle of our metaphorical car would be.

...it's supposed to make you a bit more visible and give you more avoidance options

Drivers tend to look for other cars, vans, lorries etc. They will tend to look/glance at the middle of the lane and make a quick decision if a car is there/can I get out before it and then pull out. When doing so they may not notice the non-car shaped object at the side of the road - Primary is supposed to help by putting you where the drivers are likely to be looking (as well as giving you room to avoid things by making surethere is car-free space to the left and right.

This is all covered in the book Cyclecraft that get recommended on here regularly. It a good book - but I've since passed my copy onto someone else.

 

[Spinney]

Thanks for the primary/secondary lesson! Having had a motorbike many years ago (no longer...) I kind of knew the tactics, but hadn't heard them referred to in that way. Must look out for Cyclecraft now!

 

[Lazy-Commuter]

Thanks for the primary/secondary lesson! Having had a motorbike many years ago (no longer...) I kind of knew the tactics, but hadn't heard them referred to in that way. Must look out for Cyclecraft now!

I picked up a copy in my local library. Which allowed me to read it at least, though I suspect it's the kind of book you should have a permanent copy of and keep re-familiarising yourself with.

As an ex-motorcyclist there probably won't be too many surprises in there for you .. the main new things for me were in trying to be assertive and covering escape routes without HUGE acceleration at your disposal .. well, unless you've got mega-legs of course.

You'll also see a lot of the issues it covers repeated on here .. there are some very experienced cyclists on here.

 

[fossyant]

Primary - near middle of lane

Secondary - a good metre out !

Doh.....missed a whole page !!!!!!!!

 

[Landslide]

Doh.....missed a whole page !!!!!!!!

Of course, primary and secondary positioning should always be used in conjunction with good observational skills...

 

[new-fish]

Horses on roads.. another menace. :?:

 

[andy_wrx]

Horses on roads.. another menace.

What, horses using our roads ?

A bit like those bloody cyclists who keep getting in car drivers' way ?