YouTube Dilema

[hackbike 666]

Thank you for that.



So this is a points scoring exercise is it? Just gets better and better.

You mean you never knew?

 

[jonny jeez]

Or is it Chicken Licken "The sky is falling!"

both I think

hey.. its a fairytale mashup!!

 

[jonny jeez]

The tale of Cyclist Lyclist.

One day, as Cyclist Lyclist was riding to work, an unattentative motorist passes him closely.
Cyclist Lyclist sits up in horror and says to himself "The cars hate me, the cars hate me!". I must tell the police.

When Cyclist Lyclist meets Recumbent Lecumbant, Cyclist Lyclist tells Recumbent Lecumbant "The cars hate us, the cars hate us! We must tell the police"

Recumbent Lecumbant agrees and says "I have it on video. Let's show it to the police."

They meet EmmTeeBee LemTeeBee."

They both tell EmmTeeBee LemTeeBee "The cars hate us, the cars hate us!"

EmmTeeBee LemTeeBee agrees and says they should tell Roadracer Loadracer.

Then they told Moulton Loulton.

Then they told SuperGal LuperGal.

Then they told Brompton Lompton.

Brompton Lompton suggests telling Pennyfarthing Lennyfarthing.

Cyclist Lyclist, Recumbent Lecumbant, EmmTeeBee LemTeeBee, Roadracer Loadracer, Moulton Loulton, SuperGal Lupergal and Brompton Lompton tell Pennyfarthing Lennyfarthing "The cars hate us, the cars hate us!"

"Of course they do, you stupid twats. They always have, and running around squealing about it will make them hate you more".

well, that's saved me a job tonght, I can never find a good bedtime story for my little'un.

perfect

 

[hackbike 666]

So who's winning on points?

 

[Bollo]

Much as it pains me, I think Lee is right about changing drivers' attitudes. Pointing a camera in their face could prevent any instant and violent retribution or even get them to squeeze out a half-assed apology, but I'd bet they're subsequent driving changes not one jot. Poor driver attitudes in this country are too deeply ingrained for that.

I also believe that riding with a camera does change a cyclist's attitude, but in different ways for different cyclists. It might make some a little more ready to engage in 'afters', while others are generally calmer knowing that there's good evidence available if something bad happens. I'd include myself in the second category. I like the description (quoted by Origamist but originally from dondare?) of the camera as a 'black box'.

The other thing that gets forgotten when someone posts footage is that the camera rarely gives the whole picture. You can add an extended commentary explaining your perfect road position, excellent obs and great hair, but viewers will either not read it at all or treat it as self-agrandising after-the-fact bum gravy. Often the footage cannot reflect the proximity, speed or complexity of an incident, and it certainly can't get across the rider's subjective sense of danger.

I can think of many incidents posted that (based on the footage alone) wouldn't have bothered me much and others where I'd have filled my pants. I've also had incidents that, while concerning at the time have looked fairly innocuous on camera, and vice-versa. Based on the type of riding we do and where we do it, we've all got our risk dials set differently. There are always going to be disagreements about what constitutes an acceptable risk-reward-responsibility balance (ref helmets/earphones/RLJ/cycle lanes). There's no right answer.

 

[just jim]

while others are generally calmer knowing that there's good evidence available if something bad happens.

Sorry for picking this out Bollo, but I think for most cyclists with cameras this surely is the pragmatic, non-wolf-crying reason for taking one along on a regular commute.

 

[Origamist]

I like the description (quoted by Origamist but originally from dondare?) of the camera as a 'black box'.

A rare moment of insight from Broken Betty!

The other thing that gets forgotten when someone posts footage is that the camera rarely gives the whole picture. You can add an extended commentary explaining your perfect road position, excellent obs and great hair, but viewers will either not read it at all or treat it as self-agrandising after-the-fact bum gravy. Often the footage cannot reflect the proximity, speed or complexity of an incident, and it certainly can't get across the rider's subjective sense of danger.

Indeed. Film flattens, distorts and dilutes etc, but also catches things we miss. Dynamic situations that leave our sensory organs buzzing at the time, look very different (the "mummification of time") when we're munching some Pringles, with a laptop burning our knees in the swaddling comfort of a sofa sagging under our weight (or is that just me?).

 

[HLaB]

Indeed. Film flattens, distorts and dilutes etc, but also catches things we miss. Dynamic situations that leave our sensory organs buzzing at the time, look very different (the "mummification of time") when we're munching some Pringles, with a laptop burning our knees in the swaddling comfort of a sofa sagging under our weight (or is that just me?).

Indeed I've had thing I thought were bad on the road but when I've reviewed the film I thought, no. Visa versa I've had thing that didn't feel bad on the road but look close on camera. I put some of it down to the Fisheye lens which, makes things to the side look further and things in front look closer. There is however probably an element of just being in a different mood.

 

[Bollo]

Sorry for picking this out Bollo, but I think for most cyclists with cameras this surely is the pragmatic, non-wolf-crying reason for taking one along on a regular commute.

I'm not sure cammed up cyclists are crying-wolf because, really, who's listening? We can get all worked up on here, but what proportion of the travelling public are regular cyclists? We can also get into flame wars with other special-interest groups like safespeed or bloodbus but in the grand scheme this counts for (continuing Origamist's mafia-themed slang) nadda.

 

[dondare]

Magnatom has achieved National fame as a campaining cyclist withacamera. Dunno if that's had any perceptible effect on the people I share the road with.

 

[HLaB]

Magnatom has achieved National fame as a campaining cyclist withacamera. Dunno if that's had any perceptible effect on the people I share the road with.

I'd say First bus have got better in this area (by no means are they perfect though) but whether the Magnatom effect has spread from Glasgow

 

[Bollo]

I'd say First bus have got better in this area (by no means are they perfect though) but whether the Magnatom effect has spread from Glasgow

Maggers is probably the best example we have of building a proper campaign around cyclist cams and I really admire and appreciate his efforts. They're also a world away from just sticking something on youtube and then arguing the toss with whoever trolls along. But unfortunately it's just too limited in scope and geographic area to have a measurable impact nationwide.

I've used my own footage to complain about the behaviour of a commercial driver and walked away feeling I've done some good. But it's one thing to initiate local change after an incident, and quite another proactively to bring about a cultural change amongst drivers as a whole. Like Lee says, it has to come from the top and that means training and legislation. No real appetite for that at the moment.

Before you get carried away Lee, I still think you're a gobshite.

 

[bryce]

It's not just about looking after number one, you can help others too.

If I filmed you being assaulted by a driver who had run you off the road, would you want to use the footage to corroborate your version of events, or would you refuse to use the film on a matter of principle? I imagine most people would bite my hand off to have film of the incident.

For sure I'd ask to use it if it was available. In the same way I'd check local CCTV. I'm in no way against using cams but just question peoples' rationale for wearing them and then how they use them.

Important to remember that camera-wearers are a massive minority on this forum, which is itself a minute microcosm of all commuting cyclists. In the main, commuting cyclists aren't out to record/ educate/ reprimand people around them but just to enjoy themselves getting from A to B.

 

[bryce]

P.s. if this thread is 20 pages long, what odds we hit 40 once Maggers returns and picks up on each point..?

 

[Bollo]

P.s. if this thread is 20 pages long, what odds we hit 40 once Maggers returns and picks up on each point..?

Bring back Mr hippo!!