FNRttC 2017 (that's next year, folks) thinking ride thread

You do want to come on this tour don't you?


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mmmmartin

mmmmartin

Random geezer
I feel there was too much distance.
Next year will have no day of more than 100k, and a couple of half that.
You and Martin were our first campers on a tour, and generally it worked well I thought. But you inevitably missed out on some of the evening socialising, and your injury was an absolute pain for you, a great shame.
 

theclaud

Openly Marxist
Location
Swansea
Next year will have no day of more than 100k, and a couple of half that.
You and Martin were our first campers on a tour, and generally it worked well I thought. But you inevitably missed out on some of the evening socialising, and your injury was an absolute pain for you, a great shame.
IIRC @redflightuk was mostly camping on LonJoG. The camping folks are rufty-tufty self-sufficient sorts almost by definition, so it's not usually much of a problem incorporating them, and they often have additional adventures to relate when they rejoin the group - @EatSleepRideRepeat had an interesting time in Leuven IIRC. The only issue is that the others need to remember to keep them in the loop :whistle:.
 
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EatSleepRideRepeat

AKA Martin from Wales
Location
West Wales
Me being one of the 'rufty tufty' types...hahaha.
I weighed my luggage before leaving, a total of 14kgs, so pretty good as I was carrying camping kit, stove food etc. The bike is supremely comfortable, I have done many days over 12 hours 'in the saddle', with the only aches being the legs, understandable. What is not so good about the loaded recumbent is the difficulty in getting the thing in and out of trains, lifts, escalators, and other tricky spaces. It becomes a bit of a lump, with no obvious easy way to pick it up.
The tour started with Arriva and GWR transporting me to Paddington, and a meandering ride to Liverpool St, found Stu. Thats where the plan started to crumble, delayed trains to Mannintree, missed connections. We arrived, but the later trains left riders with moments to spare as they raced to catch the ferry. There was a good opportunity to meet old and new friends on the ferry, before retiring for the night. Beer was rubbish though, and don't mention the wine.
It's hard to anticipate the speed a group will travel, and how you can keep up, or be held back, but that is the nature of groups. I found the pace to be pretty good, and gave me time to look around at what we were passing, no point going if you don't see anything.
I had checked out the camping sites, and made routes from Fridays Central to each one, so it was just a matter of following my track to the site at the end of the days ride. First day, Garmin said no!, something wrong in the file. Fortunately, I discovered the track hidden under the map, and with the help and support of Kim, made it to the site. It didn't look promising, but at that time we didn't have much choice, so after a bit of help from a couple camping there, we unpacked and got the tents up. En suit camping? Oh yes, each plot had it's own facilities in a small shed, shower toilet, power points, perfect, all for the princely sum of 7.50 euros.
At Venlo, Kim's choice of site was closer, and as we were the only campers, we had our oun facilities again, there was also a bar on site, handy for a rewarding glass of fizzy yellow stuff. The following day was heating up, and my supply of sun block was rapidly being used up, thankfully bought the extra factor 50. Water was an issue, I have only one bottle carrier, not normally a problem, but we were stopping at supermarkets to buy water to fill our bottles. Adds to the tour, having a group photo taken at the request of the store manager outside the supermarket.......
In Koln it was good to ge together with all for the group dinner at Malzmuhle. Good food, dangerously efficient beer supply, but no tap water.....The walk through Koln at night showed that it deserved further investigation another time. The night at Koln was spent in the hostel, and was probably my worst nights sleep.
Arriving in Aachen, we lucky campers had a guide to take us to the campsite, about 3km from Fridays Central. We detoured past a supermarket to get emergency supplies, and arrived at a very nice site, with plenty of space, and a couple of other campers. The field is only for tents, no cars so it was quiet, and the facilities were a 100meters away. It was good after a hot day cycling and chatting to lie down on the grass and relax, eat, drink, and read. The next morning, a day off, I discovered a small shop on site selling fresh breads and cakes. Kim was not well, so I left a croixant and bread offering, and rode into town for the Cathedral tour. One of the highlights of the week, such a stunning building, with a great mix of ancient and modern images. Particularly loved the modern (1940's) geometric stained glass.
The ride to Leuven was my favourite day, not sure why, could be the beautiful places we stopped at or went through, Maastricht, Sint-Truiden, or that the bike and legs seemed to be working well. Such a joy leaving the jacket packed away, and being warm in glorious countryside. Did I see a hill, not really much of a climb, but the down seemed to go on and on. At Leuven, Fridays Central had been swamped by a fair, so it was changed, to a nearby point. The choice of campsites was very limited here, and the nearest I could find was another 9 miles, so do your stuff Garmin..........Half an hour later, and I arrived almost exactly back where I started from, the track had looped round, and left me retracing the line. D'oh! Turned round, and started again, discovered I had routed for walking, so ended up going through places I would certainly not have cycled, very narrow cobbled streets, allys, pavements, over a very narrow bridge, through an arched doorway and through a convent, (a couple of nuns smiled as I went past, it was pity I think). It was starting to get dark, the rain was coming down pretty hard, and the route forced me into a dark wood, bouncing over fallen sticks, rocks mud, leaves, more of a circus balancing trick than a bike ride. At last, a road. Torrential rain now, and the road seemed to go on and on. At last, the site. Dark, nobody about. Just at the point I was going to put the tent anywhere I could find, a man appeared, and guided me to the manager, who lead me to the front garden of the owner, who was away, and said I could camp on the grass, and use the awning at the front of his house to dry out. Perfect, I even managed to persuade him to give me a beer, very welcome, as 9 miles had turned into 15 miles.
Lovely ride in to Central the following day, I had discovered where the hills were hidden, and could see them properly, with the early morning mist resting in the valleys, very peaceful, another place to revisit. The stop at Mechelen, a very surprising town that we entered through a large gatehouse looking building, that hid a beautiful town the other side. I somehow managed to eat a gigantic portion of spaghetti icecream, easily enough for 4 people.
The group dinner in Gent was excellent. Really good food, and great company. I had to get back to Wales the following day, so collect my bike from the hostel where it was locked, and rode to the station. The train was 5.30am, and it was now 1.30am. The station closed, and I spent a couple of hours sleeping in a building site out of the rain nearby. I had some trouble buying the ticket to Brussels, couldn't find where to pay for the bike. The train was a double decker, and is very difficult to get on with a fully loaded recumbent, climbing up three steep steps. Couldn't find anywhere obvious to put the bike, so left it in front of the doors. Guard didn't seem to be bothered.
Booking in at Eurodispatch was easy, and before I had time for coffee, we were boarding, and 2h 10m later, in London, amazing. Not so good from there to home which took another 11 hours and nearly had me weeping in frustration, but thats another story.
So, I loved it. It doesn't worry me if the pace is slow or fast. If it's too fast, I will get left behind, and I willl catch up, eventually. No such thing as too slow, as it gives time to look around and explore. I never felt out of the loop, being in a field is my idea of bliss, rain or sun. The time we all meet up for meals was very good, but I never wished I could ride back into town to go to a bar etc. I valued Kims company, it's sometimes hard to be totally alone in a stange place. I enjoyed meeting everyone, it is such an enlightening experience, just cycling and chatting.
 

kimble

Veteran
Next year will have no day of more than 100k, and a couple of half that.
You and Martin were our first campers on a tour, and generally it worked well I thought. But you inevitably missed out on some of the evening socialising, and your injury was an absolute pain for you, a great shame.

Missing out on some of the evening stuff was in some ways a feature. Food can be a problem for me, and cooking my own greatly reduces the stress of ensuring that there's something I'll be able to eat. Going hungry isn't an option when you're riding all day. It also kept the budget down to achievable levels (I actually spent less than I expected, even accounting for the train fares.)

I don't think carrying camping kit was an issue for either of us - we've done it before and know what works. (As I explained to those who asked, what works for me as a savvy British camper who feels the cold involves a pannier and a half of extra clothing and insulation that @EatSleepRideRepeat didn't need to bother with, and indeed the unexpectedly warm weather conditions made largely redundant. But I'd much rather lug a few kilos of down around in a heatwave than spend the night shivering because I left it at home. BTDT.) The only real issue is that it added a bit more distance (and therefore time) to each day, as campsites tend to be out of town centres (if you were planning a cycle-camping tour, you'd have cities in the middle of each ride, rather than the ends). That actually turned out to be a lot less of a problem than I expected - largely because opportunities to pick up supplies presented themselves during the afternoon, saving having to do it in the evening, but also because getting to and from the sites was much quicker than I expected, particularly in the Netherlands where it's dead easy to make good progress through urban areas on a bicycle. On the other hand, going fully loaded does slow you down if the terrain is properly hilly, and I'd think twice about doing a hilly tour with people who are mostly faster than me.

I'd suggest that a Fridays tour isn't the ideal place for someone to cut their teeth at cycle-camping, as there are all sorts of interesting ways to waste time or be wet and miserable if you haven't got your kit and luggage strategy worked out. Better to spend some weekends with like-minded nutters from a cycle forum, or go to some ALC meets or something instead.
 

kimble

Veteran
The choice of campsites was very limited here, and the nearest I could find was another 9 miles, so do your stuff Garmin..........Half an hour later, and I arrived almost exactly back where I started from, the track had looped round, and left me retracing the line. D'oh! Turned round, and started again, discovered I had routed for walking, so ended up going through places I would certainly not have cycled, very narrow cobbled streets, allys, pavements, over a very narrow bridge, through an arched doorway and through a convent, (a couple of nuns smiled as I went past, it was pity I think). It was starting to get dark, the rain was coming down pretty hard, and the route forced me into a dark wood, bouncing over fallen sticks, rocks mud, leaves, more of a circus balancing trick than a bike ride. At last, a road. Torrential rain now, and the road seemed to go on and on. At last, the site. Dark, nobody about. Just at the point I was going to put the tent anywhere I could find, a man appeared, and guided me to the manager, who lead me to the front garden of the owner, who was away, and said I could camp on the grass, and use the awning at the front of his house to dry out. Perfect, I even managed to persuade him to give me a beer, very welcome, as 9 miles had turned into 15 miles.

Cor, excitement. I think I made the right decision booking into the hostel, although along with snorers (who don't generally bother me), my dorm also featured someone with a form of snorer-induced Tourette's, which was much more distracting.

There was plenty of rain in Ghent the following evening, but I had my tent up by then and all was well. Rain's lovely when it's outside your tent and stops when your bladder is approaching full.


I had some trouble buying the ticket to Brussels, couldn't find where to pay for the bike. The train was a double decker, and is very difficult to get on with a fully loaded recumbent, climbing up three steep steps. Couldn't find anywhere obvious to put the bike, so left it in front of the doors. Guard didn't seem to be bothered.

I managed to decode the ticket machines okay, but they weren't happy about my credit card, not helped by the incomprehensible error message from the card terminal. I got there in the end, and reckon the ticket logic still compares favourably to that of British trains.

There didn't seem to be any provision for bikes, although the train out of Maastricht had a guard's compartment - complete with extra-helpful guard - that took the bike plus luggage without a fuss. It seemed that, having paid for a bike ticket, the staff were happy for you to do whatever worked, as long as other passengers could get on and off. What struck me with the Belgian trains was that climbing steep steps was considered normal - at minor stations, you'd have to start at track level. On one of the trains I boarded a compartment marked with a wheelchair symbol, but saw no evidence of physical accessibility in the carriage (maybe it's just to make sure that wheelchair users end up in the same place?). I saw their version of a wheelchair ramp when I got off at Veurne - a spectacular piece of equipment that looked like the lovechild of a Genie lift and a skateboard ramp.

In conclusion: Belgian trains - really not designed for bikes, and yet still better than British ones. Perfectly acceptable as a bail-out option, though perhaps not something you'd want to get more than a couple of people at a time on.
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
As long as you buy your bike ticket in advance, and there are two of you to get the bikes up to the train, we found Belgian trains extremely accommodating of cyclists - even (back in May) of a tandem that the guard had to step over to get through the train. But a German ticket machine at Aachen probably won't sell you a Belgian bike ticket, especially when you don't really have time to scroll through all the options, and we couldn't find a way to make the Ghent machine sells us one either - but we had time to talk to a person at a window.

We got almost all the way to Leuven before a slightly officious guard appeared and then complained about selling us bike tickets on the train - but he seemed to be complaining more about having to charge us €12 each bike (double fare) for one journey than about actually selling us the ticket.
 
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mmmmartin

mmmmartin

Random geezer
My main experience of buying Belgian train tickets is the de Panne to Brussels ride for the FNRttK, to Ostend, which I've done a few times. I've found the Belgian train people to be very helpful and accommodating. Furthermore, it didn't hurt a bit* when I paid the full €21.50 price for a ticket from Ostend to Aachen but @Gordon P paid €8 cos he's really old.

*said through gritted teeth

(FYI my one attempt to buy a ticket from Ostend to Brussels in French prompted the ticket fellow to reply in perfect English (obvs): "Here in Belgium we do not speak French, we speak only Flemish and English."
#gottaloveJohnnyForeigner )
 

StuAff

Silencing his legs regularly
Location
Portsmouth
Have spent a bit of time on Belgian trains, and part of the problem with a bike is that the cycle carriage isn't marked properly. Self and Eddie ended up in the vestibule between Liege and Welkenraedt the other week because we couldn't spot it and there was no SNCB bod on the platform to tell us where it was. On my return after the FNRttK (OK, the return after getting out of hospital..) last year, I did find a HUGE bike space on one train into Brussels (not needed as I had Chutney), the next one (after the bomb alert stopped the service at Bruges) it was back to the vestibule. The steps are a pain indeed with a fully laden bike. Probably not a problem with four or five kilos of carbon, but for everyone else…
 

StuartG

slower but further
Location
SE London
Have spent a bit of time on Belgian trains, and part of the problem with a bike is that the cycle carriage isn't marked properly. Self and Eddie ended up in the vestibule between Liege and Welkenraedt the other week because we couldn't spot it and there was no SNCB bod on the platform to tell us where it was. On my return after the FNRttK (OK, the return after getting out of hospital..) last year, I did find a HUGE bike space on one train into Brussels (not needed as I had Chutney), the next one (after the bomb alert stopped the service at Bruges) it was back to the vestibule. The steps are a pain indeed with a fully laden bike. Probably not a problem with four or five kilos of carbon, but for everyone else…
[smug]There is an easier way ... [/smug]
 

AKA Bob

Riding a folding bike far too much of the time...
And it's not that much cheaper once you added in all your additional expenditure waiting around in cafes waiting for your friends to arrive because your cheap megabus tickets mean you arrive or depart silly o'clock......
 

StuartG

slower but further
Location
SE London
And it's not that much cheaper once you added in all your additional expenditure waiting around in cafes waiting for your friends to arrive because your cheap megabus tickets mean you arrive or depart silly o'clock......
Wrong I'm afraid. 9am from London & noon from Ghent afair. Did that twice. But this and last year I did Eurostar in case nobody noticed. @mmmmartin was the one who got it right :rolleyes:

Next year? Who knows? Its good to have a choice.
 

ianmac62

Guru
Location
Northampton
If you're planning to travel with a bike on Belgian trains, then you can buy tickets in advance on their English-language website. They release tickets a month in advance. They're no cheaper since there are no discount advance fares along UK lines (Belgium charges by the kilometre). The advantage is that you can print the tickets at home for both the passenger and his/her bike or tandem, avoiding any rushing / poor communication / uncooperative machines at the stations.

Here are my print-at-home tickets (with pretty pictures) from an earlier adventure from Aachen to Ostend (€22.40 for me; €5 for my bike) showing that (a) they'll sell you a web ticket for a journey that starts at a German station and (b) the railway's official language is French.
 

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mmmmartin

mmmmartin

Random geezer
If you're planning to travel with a bike on Belgian trains, .....

(b) the railway's official language is French.
I've bought tickets several times, and found a polite "can we speak in English please?" is a good way to start. Far better than speaking in French. At Ostend I tried this an was promptly told by the ticket chappie: "Here in Belgium we speak two languages - Flemish and English."
 
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