FNRttC 2017 (that's next year, folks) thinking ride thread

[StuartG]

OK, I am going to try very very hard not to feel deeply patronised by a lot of that.

Sorry - all I wanted to do was to agree with you and say I too didn't want to go on a ride that wasn't TMN-able. Please forgive if the way I said that was clumsy.

Yes - there has been some creep on some rides to expect more than that. I've done some and you avoided them - quite rightly imo. I didn't enjoy them (though like some gym work seeing where your breaking limit is useful). Tough sections are acceptable if its a particular hill like Ditchling. It is unacceptable if its two Ditchlings a day for a week. We have to accept that sometimes to do a great ride its unavoidable that a hill is involved or a rather longer distance between two towns is inevitable. Its unfortunate when the two coincide. For those that can do that great but the inclusiveness is that walking a hill with pride is also welcome. As long as its the exception not the rule. I mean you and me might not enjoy that day but we win as long as its the exception not the rule whereas the speedy boys might only be enjoying the exceptions rather than the rule.

The point you make is very important. How to ensure the leaders who inevitably will have above average endurance calibrate the acceptance level so that new riders and less strong riders can enjoyably grow into long distance touring with the FNRttC.

 

[velovoice]

OK, I am going to try very very hard not to feel deeply patronised by a lot of that. I don't think you have understood the part of my previous post where I said that these tours are slipping beyond my capabilities.

Amen. What I'm hearing (entirely unintentionally, of course, because that's the nature of privilege) is a kind of "ability privilege" speaking, where the default mode seems to be (in danger of becoming) the more abled amongst us saying " I want to do x, so that's what we'll do, sorry if that means some people can't participate".

One woman has already posted that she's unwilling to join this year's tour because she thinks it will be too challenging for her.

Yes. Though I'd just like to clarify - the Lowlands Tour was challenging for me. It took a lot of preparation, physiotherapy and, dare I say it, "training" to get me to the starting line. I was by no means 100% certain I'd make it to the finish. But I was bloody well determined to give it my best try. The week proved that the challenge was, as always, more a case of managing food, rest, strength and pain levels than one of fitness. But I knew when the Lowlands idea was first broached that, with preparation, it should be within my capabilities, even if suffering was involved. And that pre-tour assessment proved correct. For me, at least.

This past winter, however, I looked at the Viva Colonia proposal and, even after it was significantly modified ("down graded, I suspect the organisers may have felt), I knew immediately that this was simply beyond my capabilities. Training etc does not come into it. This would not be "too challenging", it would be impossible.

Likewise what is being bandied about for 2017. I am "priced out", excluded on basic principles from the outset.

It is very difficult -- as I sit at this moment in the middle of a very challenging but rewarding, confidence-building cycling tour -- to read some of the comments on this thread and not feel hurt, rejected and, to be honest, bloody furious.

 

[velovoice]

There is also now, for me, an issue of trust/confidence. In years past, a number of options were presented. All were attractive, all were "TMN (and VV) doable". One was "I don't care where, if it's with the Fridays, count me in". Two years later, that blind vote of confidence is now the ONLY voting option. And it makes me very sad to find that I can't vote that way this time.

 

[redfalo]

From my perspective, the claim that the Friday tours have become less inclusive since LonJOG does not at all do justice to @mmmmartin's effort.

If you look at hard facts like mileage covered and climbing done, LonJOG was by far the hardest ride of them all, with two +100 miles days (these days, we rarely have +100 km day on a Fridays tours) True, we had van support, but so did we on the Bordeaux gig, with shorter days, nicer weather and less climbing.

And no matter how strong a rider you are, on every tour there can be days where you will be struggling, either due to bad weather / wind or bad personal form.

 

[redfalo]

@redfalo, this is nothing to do with the effort that a group of people put in to organising these tours! It's more to do with losing sight of what the back of the metaphorical ride is doing because one is revelling in sailing along at the front.

As I've done a couple of days of TEC duties on LonJOG, I can tell you that it was bloody stretched out at many times too.

 

[mmmmartin]

A few numbers: and I introduce you to a new unit of measurement; The Ditchling.

• Ditchling Beacon is 1.45k and climbs 143 metres, the average gradient is 9%
  Here are the proposed days fro Brittany:
  • 70k, 80k, 120k (831m up, 630m descent so nearly six Ditchlings over eight times the distance), 100k (620m up, 760m down four Ditchlings over 60 times the distance), 70k, 75k, 35k, 45k
  • It is indeed very much like a 500k audax, except its 605k in eight days, and there are two harder days.
  • The route can be tweaked to make the days easier but you'll appreciate that althogh @dellzeqq can move an entire city eastwards, all his powers did not come to me. So, to make those two hard days easier, the visit to Quimper, and the ride down the west coast of Brittany, may have to go. That's no trouble, maybe the days should be much shorter - but if we go along the north coast it'll be hilly. But the days will be shorter.
• The van remains a good idea but we need two grown-up, responsible drivers, who do not want to ride. It'll be pricey because of the one-way hire.
• And the Checkpoint Charlie option would only ever attract a small number, and the main Tour takes priority.
• I still think the main fly in the ointment is getting everyone to Plymouth.

 

[StuartG]

These rides maybe should be less concerned with the front and back and concentrate on maximising what is alongside. So many times we have passed wonderful places but 'making progress' is sometimes the driving force. Enjoying more chateaux, museums etc might bring the ride more together than the speedy ones waiting impatiently around for the back to complainingly arrive. Its a tour, not an extended sportive. Success might be measured in the number of photos taken that didn't include a bike.

A bike, for some of us, is primarily a method of getting from A to B and enjoying the scenery in between. A FNRttC is the opposite of a sportive. Some people can enjoy both. A few can't tell the difference.

 

[srw]

It is indeed very much like a 500k audax

Just for the record, this comment of mine referred to Checkpoint Charlie, not to Brittany. Which is very much unlike an Audax, and with the exception of the two long days I pulled out looks much easier than any previous Fridays' ride I've been on - even allowing for the luggage.

 

[srw]

Anyway.

This conversation has so far been between about five people. I will take a step back and allow the other 25 planning to come on Colonia and the other 65 who typically ride overnight to have their say.

 

[mmmmartin]

Here's a route with shorter days: it cuts the very long day and lengthens the last day from 35k to 80k so a look round the Bayeux tapestry is probably not feasible, but it retains the west coast of Brittany section.

https://goo.gl/maps/T9fhEoLoQK62

there is 4,000m of ascent in the eight days of riding. that's 500m a day on average, or call it three Ditchlings. Say half a Ditchling per hour.

Someone is this month doing a sort of recce by riding Caen-Roscoff by a different route. I await reports.

 

[User482]

Here's a route with shorter days: it cuts the very long day and lengthens the last day from 35k to 80k so a look round the Bayeux tapestry is probably not feasible, but it retains the west coast of Brittany section.

https://goo.gl/maps/T9fhEoLoQK62

there is 4,000m of ascent in the eight days of riding. that's 500m a day on average, or call it three Ditchlings. Say half a Ditchling per hour.

Someone is this month doing a sort of recce by riding Caen-Roscoff by a different route. I await reports.

Could I make one suggestion, in the spirit of inclusivity? Crossings from St Malo to Portsmouth are a bit inconsistent - usually running in the morning, sometimes not at all, sometimes overnight. If the dates were checked against the ferry timetable it would give the option of a shorter tour for those of us unable to take a full week.

My only other comment is that there are some wonderful beaches to the south and west of Quimper, so it seems a shame to miss them out, though I can't see an easy way of reconciling that with the daily distances.

 

[mmmmartin]

Date are as yet undecided, except Ramadan (during which our Muslim members might wish to abstain from food while expected to ride 100k on a loaded bike) is the feast of eid el fitr and that is the weekend before the Friday June 30. So if we go after Ramadan, we can leave Plymouth on Friday June 30 and arrive on Saturday July 1 and we can enjoy decent weather* and let us hope not everyone in France is on holiday then.

*crosses fingers

 

[mmmmartin]

Crossings from St Malo to Portsmouth are a bit inconsistent - usually running in the morning, sometimes not at all, sometimes overnight. If the dates were checked against the ferry timetable it would give the option of a shorter tour

The Brittany Ferries website doesn't tell us yet what they'll be doing next summer. Not many will have only four days riding in Brittany, given the cost of the ferries - it'd be a pricey little trip. Nice though. You can be sure there'll be a ferry back from St Malo either on the evening or the morning after. HTH.

 

[User482]

The Brittany Ferries website doesn't tell us yet what they'll be doing next summer. Not many will have only four days riding in Brittany, given the cost of the ferries - it'd be a pricey little trip. Nice though. You can be sure there'll be a ferry back from St Malo either on the evening or the morning after. HTH.

That's not quite true - very occasionally you would have to wait until the following evening, which would render the idea pretty pointless. I think the timetables are published early Autumn so we ought to know the situation well in advance of any final planning. I appreciate that this is a minority interest, but if it could be accommodated without impinging much on everyone else, then why not?

 

[mmmmartin]

if you wanted to catch the evening ferry we'd ensure you made it. they seem to leave at either 10.30am or 8.30pm. We should be in St Malo in time to catch an 8.30pm ferry.