FNRttC 2017 (that's next year, folks) thinking ride thread

[theclaud]

With my usual effortless ability to align with the least popular view about everything, I've voted for Brittany or Northumberland (although having ridden a 100-miler from Berwick to Edmundbyers via Alnwick and Rothbury, and having chased a Brompton piloted by a cucumber-fuelled @MarkA up the A68 and failing to reel him in by so much as an inch, I am mystified by @User482's claim that the latter is flat). I don't know Brittany, but I have a thing for peninsulas.

I like hilly terrain, although I also like riding with those in The Fridays who don't. I think it's a good thing for the Tour to avoid pushing people to their limits every day (it is a holiday, after all), but on the other hand tiredness is not all in the legs, and I think there are many things more exhausting than a few lumps in the profile. Poor surfaces, narrow two-way paths, the concertina effect of large groups at small-capacity junctions, wiggly nonsense with lots of low-speed turns, not having a proper lunch, relentless headwinds...

It's going to be a swings-and-roundabouts thing. Belgium has crap paths, and approaches to towns that might as well be Farnborough, but all of those Farnboroughs have a Grote or an Oude Markt with big cafes and nice beer. And there are waffles and moules frites and Carbonnade. The Netherlands has duff beer and grumpy roadies and horrible suburbs, and inspires infrastructure fundamentalists into unaccountable and tedious raptures, but it also has sweet lanes, routes across things, long lines of poplars, lots of water, and windmills serving giant pancakes. I like France because we get to ride on the road there, and because it's mahoosive and varied, and there is Calvados and cidre and cheap wine to make up for the duff beer. On the other hand half of it appears to be closed at any given moment, and one might accidentally order something related to Andouillettes.

 

[Pale Rider]

With my usual effortless ability to align with the least popular view about everything, I've voted for Brittany or Northumberland (although having ridden a 100-miler from Berwick to Edmundbyers via Alnwick and Rothbury, and having chased a Brompton piloted by a cucumber-fuelled @MarkA up the A68 and failing to reel him in by so much as an inch, I am mystified by @User482's claim that the latter is flat). I don't know Brittany, but I have a thing for peninsulas.

I like hilly terrain, although I also like riding with those in The Fridays who don't. I think it's a good thing for the Tour to avoid pushing people to their limits every day (it is a holiday, after all), but on the other hand tiredness is not all in the legs, and I think there are many things more exhausting than a few lumps in the profile. Poor surfaces, narrow two-way paths, the concertina effect of large groups at small-capacity junctions, wiggly nonsense with lots of low-speed turns, not having a proper lunch, relentless headwinds...

It's going to be a swings-and-roundabouts thing. Belgium has crap paths, and approaches to towns that might as well be Farnborough, but all of those Farnboroughs have a Grote or an Oude Markt with big cafes and nice beer. And there are waffles and moules frites and Carbonnade. The Netherlands has duff beer and grumpy roadies and horrible suburbs, and inspires infrastructure fundamentalists into unaccountable and tedious raptures, but it also has sweet lanes, routes across things, long lines of poplars, lots of water, and windmills serving giant pancakes. I like France because we get to ride on the road there, and because it's mahoosive and varied, and there is Calvados and cidre and cheap wine to make up for the duff beer. On the other hand half of it appears to be closed at any given moment, and one might accidentally order something related to Andouillettes.

Wise words about there being more to getting tired on a bicycle than climbing.

I did a few miles of rattly canal path leaving Oxford, flat - it was a canal path - but a combination of many other users and the surface made it very wearing.

Berwick to Edmundbyers is a challenging 100 mile ride which I wouldn't fancy.

On t'other hand, I did 100 miles along the coast from Berwick to Newcastle which was fairly flat, apart from some climbing around Belford.

I'm no expert in touring and only have a vague idea how the Fridays like to do it, but I do think Northumberland/the Borders is a viable option.

As a non-member, I've voted for that.

But I can see going abroad is more exciting in the anticipation.

 

[StuAff]

Apologies if this is rambly, retreading what's gone on before (multiple times in some cases) , and ever so slightly angry in places....

Going back to somewhere we've been before is not 'playing it safe'. Going somewhere accessible without flying (or a very long train journey) and associated time and expense is not 'playing it safe'. And some people (me included) sometimes forget it's not about you. It's about us, the collective. In some situations, this means going off on your own when you're a bit grumpy and trying not to take it out on others (as I did on the tour once or twice). In others, it means not assuming that twenty or thirty other people are ready, willing and able to fork out lots and lots of time and money to just get to whatever destination you fancy. As the other week proved, and Bordeaux proved before that, trains and ferries can be stressful enough... If you want to stump up for everyone else, go ahead. If not, tough. If I ever go for a cycling holiday via plane I would either rent/buy a decent bike box and accept the necessary taxi fares etc, or get a hire bike if available. That's what I'd do, because I don't ever want to pick up a busted frame from a luggage carousel and I won't ever take the risk. Making such a choice for others is not reasonable nor plausible. If people want to challenge themselves, easy logistics serves to enable hard cycling. If anyone wished to argue that my ride to Swansea (223 miles, much of it in 25-30 degree heat) was somehow 'easy' because I started from home and had a tailwind (it wasn't), or that the rest day audax crew gallivanted along in 30 degrees (we didn't!) because the luggage was stashed in hotel rooms, they would be very wrong.

Rant over, Claud and others have hit nails on head. There are a lot of places in the UK that would work, though logistical issues might make some more difficult. Travel might be more expensive, but there are options for reducing costs in other ways. Had a terrific time on a riding weekend based in a bunkhouse a few years back. The 'basing' option, rather than full-on touring, was a great one for Normandy, and it would work again, and in lots of places, here and on the continent. In the UK, Lancashire, Yorkshire, Wales north and south..... And there's nothing to stop us having two or three bases and touring between them....

Belgium, Netherlands, France, and Germany have hardly been done to death. And if we go back to towns and cities, let alone countries, we've been before because we like them, so what? It doesn't mean going to exactly the same place and doing exactly the same thing year after year. In Belgium alone, Gent, Ypres, Poperinge, Leuven to name but a few places, would all be worthy of a visit/revisit as applicable in their own right and make excellent, accessible bases for exploring their regions. Even Brussels would work for that- I might not have found straightforward routes in and out of the great Belgian wen on my jaunt last year, but that might well have been my adventures in misnavigation. Drinking session in a former brewery anyone? For everything I have seen on my trips to Belgium, there's at least two or three things I haven't. For example, went to Oudenaarde last year. On a Monday. The Tour of Flanders Centre was closed All this goes double or more for the neighbouring countries. The recent trip was my first ever visit to Germany and to the Netherlands- we barely scratched the surface for me at least. Much of France remains unexplored by us, or unexplored enough. I'd happily spend more time in Saint-Saëns for example...

 

[StuAff]

Sidebar: might be an idea to have a 2017 night rides ideas thread. There were some discussions in Reading this morning, and I understand that there has been off-line chinwagging, I naturally have a few ideas of my own....

 

[Gordon P]

canal crossings designed by people on drugs,

????

 

[srw]

????

I couldn't work out why else anyone would think it a good idea to provide an escalator with a large sign saying "do not use this with a bike", followed by a mile-long tunnel, with a teeny tiny lift.

Maybe I don't have the imagination.

 

[kimble]

I couldn't work out why else anyone would think it a good idea to provide an escalator with a large sign saying "do not use this with a bike", followed by a mile-long tunnel, with a teeny tiny lift.

Maybe I don't have the imagination.

They had to move to the Netherlands after designing the platform access at Birmingham New Street, presumably.

 

[wanda2010]

That Claudine's got a way with words, she has .

 

[StuartG]

There is a consensus here. Nearly all of us would ride anywhere with the Fridays. I think we would all agree that central to that is the necessary enthusiasm of the leader. Incredible enthusiasm if it includes riding and re-riding awful tracks that never made the cut on the actual ride. That reduces the options, as I understand it to @mmmmartin next year if we are to go overseas.

So I'm with him and 100% behind him (fairy visits excepted) wherever he wants to go pied piper style. Whatever he comes up with some of us may think too hard or too soft. For me the two outstanding rides were 2012 & 2014 where we pushed the envelope with the destination as the key. Nearly half killed me on the last day of each but both were achievements that changed my cycling and the belief of what was possible. Two experiences I would would never miss and two only because the Fridays 'carried' me there. More importantly the Fridays carried EVERYONE there. Paradoxically the easier rides appear to have had a higher attrition rates.

2015 & 2016 were enjoyable and, as @theclaud so neatly summarises, instructive on cycle infrastructure and beer. Some, I'm sure enjoyed them more than 2012 & 2014. That's my point - is enjoyment of all going to be maximised by going for one or the other every year or some bland compromise between the two? Or, at the leaders discretion, oscillating between the two experiences. It doesn't have to be strictly one year revisit, one year new but we shouldn't be afraid of ringing the changes?

One can choose to join the ride or not. But I think saying we should NEVER do this or that because it doesn't use one's preferred method of transportation is asking too much when it limits what the others may wish. I may have overstated what other people have written. Indeed I hope so.

Bottom line is the key issue someone upstream identified. We need more leaders. More leaders means more tours and more choice and less strain on the old faithfuls. I hope the 2017 tour to wherever is used as a part of a serious training programme.

 

[User169]

I couldn't work out why else anyone would think it a good idea to provide an escalator with a large sign saying "do not use this with a bike", followed by a mile-long tunnel, with a teeny tiny lift.

Maybe I don't have the imagination.

It is a bit odd, especially since you can ride over to the other side of the car tunnel and there's a bike tunnel you can just ride into and out of - no stairs or lift.

 

[User169]

Now you tell us.

Well I think you're supposed to use the one with the escalators, but I've never been stopped from using the "Tube C" which is a service tunnel and maybe for mopeds.

 

[velovoice]

2015 & 2016 were enjoyable and, as @theclaud so neatly summarises, instructive on cycle infrastructure and beer. Some, I'm sure enjoyed them more than 2012 & 2014. That's my point - is enjoyment of all going to be maximised by going for one or the other every year or some bland compromise between the two? Or, at the leaders discretion, oscillating between the two experiences. It doesn't have to be strictly one year revisit, one year new but we shouldn't be afraid of ringing the changes?

I don't see the "choice" as being "revisit" versus "new", but a choice between aiming to be "inclusive" (as in achievable for most, with a reasonable amount of conditioning and preparation) versus "challenging" (as in, expanding the comfort zone of those who are already fairly comfortable with the "inclusive" option).

2015 was spot on for "inclusive". I really suffered and the victory was all the sweeter.

2016 was never ever going to be within "achievable" for me under any circumstances.

And that is why I am lobbying for 2017 to cater to a wider spectrum of riders. Or at least wide enough to encompass ME.

Bottom line is the key issue someone upstream identified. We need more leaders. More leaders means more tours and more choice and less strain on the old faithfuls. I hope the 2017 tour to wherever is used as a part of a serious training programme.

+1

 

[velovoice]

Is it you who is different this year from last? I ask because, if anything, 2016 was probably more accessible than 2015.

Now that it is not at all what we were led to expect, when this was first mooted last winter. Even less so after route & itinerary revisions were made, both pre- and post-reccie.

As it happens, I am different this September from last, due to tendonitis that has kept me off my bike most of the summer. However, this could not have been foreseen when plans and bookings were being made last winter. If I had been planning to go, I would have had to bail in early July.

I think some hyperbole was spouted about the difficultness of some of this year's tour, possibly just for the sake of posturing, who knows.

Interesting!

 

[StuartG]

I don't see the "choice" as being "revisit" versus "new", but a choice between aiming to be "inclusive" (as in achievable for most, with a reasonable amount of conditioning and preparation) versus "challenging" (as in, expanding the comfort zone of those who are already fairly comfortable with the "inclusive" option).

I am shocked you think challenging precludes inclusivity. That surely belies the whole ethos of the FNRttC - to get ordinary riders to do extraordinary rides.

Do you not think 2012 & 2014 inclusive? Everybody who planned to do the whole lot did the whole lot. The range and capability of riders was pretty much the same as this year. The difference is some tours extend beyond our comfort zones and that gives to some an extra zist. The trick is to keep it still within the capability of the regular Friday rider. You have to admit that was done in 2012 & 2014.

I accept that some may wish to stay 100% within their comfort zone and a holiday is for seeing, drinking and making merry. Not for a bit of necessary but occasional sustainable discomfort to see new places make iconic destinations (another linchpin of the Friday movement or are we going to abandon Ditchling?). But it works both ways - we have to favour both viewpoints and the only real way to do that is vary the Tours from year to year.

That's why I am concerned that, for me, life-changing foray into continental touring doesn't stall because of lack of ambition and settle into a rut. We have had two flat rides to The Netherlands. Fine. Why not somewhere else next year and return in 2018 or 2019 if the leader is willing? Do we really want to get stuck in the mud?

 

[StuartG]

I really wish you would stop this constant banging on about challenges and stretching people being the fundamental ethos of the Fridays

Actually I was saying quite the opposite. Occasional was the word which is very different. And no I'm not talking about 200k Audaxes. Like you I declined that opportunity 14 days ago as being beyond the capability of the ordinary Friday rider (indeed rather testing of the extraordinary rider if you recall).

Are you advocating that no ride should be demanding? I mean the standard FNRttC extends from the flat'n'short Southend to the more hilly Ditchling/Brighton and the long Southwold - all AFAIR you have done. Is there not room for all those rides and a similar variation in Tours?