Contador fails drug test

[fozzy]

hi, rich p, was trying to offer an opinion to another post when it was asked why AC blamed the meat specifically as opposed to any other food stuff [frank 9755]. also, i appreciate that cynics or any other view point would believe the meat thing to be a red herring, i'm not sure myself to be honest, but i stated reasonable doubt in my first post. i hadn't heard that sources close to astana had stated he was doping up and that this was made publc. i do however, always treat with a large pinch of salt, any news article leading with lines such as; "a friend of the team", "sources surrounding the camp", "ex-team mate" etc etc etc. basically when a specific person doesn't name themselves and put themselves forward with proof or the balls to say yes; i saw this happening and am willing to stand by my claims publicly. otherwise it always seems to me to be someone with a strong opinion who wants to get thier point across by saying they have this infomation from sources they can't disclose, and that, somehow lends weight to an argument.

 

[yello]

I do however, always treat with a large pinch of salt

Are you sure it's only salt?

I think you're right to accept the possibility of the tainted meat story. I think a court of law has to as well (how that differs from sports arbitration, I don't know!) because as guilty as I personally think Contador probably is, I do think there is sufficient doubt for him to be given a raised eyebrow benefit of the doubt reduced penalty or even to be let off... as much as it might piss off UCI etc.

But then it's not a court of law, there is not necessarily as presumption of innocence and Contador does have to prove himself 'not guilty'.

 

[PpPete]

An asthmatic team mechanic accidentally let his inhalor off in his pocket as Contador bent down to examine his chain. He didn't realize he'd inhaled it, just thought the mechanic had farted.

 

[fozzy]

great point yello, your right it's not a court of law and, as you state there isn't a presumption of innocence [not being contrite] but does that mean there is a presumption of certain guilt hanging over everyone, until they give a sample that is ok? that said, i completely agree with what you say yello, good points, well made. just got back from a quick ride and was thinking, usually, in other cases, in other sports when there is a an even split in opinion and also, when half the people are saying the punishment is too light half the people are saying it's not enough does that mean the spainish federation got it about right or have they just sat on the fence, passed the buck and annoyed everyone?

 

[peelywally]

By saying that his mate had brought the meat over from Spain, he gave himself a reason why he could be clenbuterol positive while his teammates wouldn't be. That defence wouldn't have been possible if they'd all eaten the same food in the hotel as per normal.

A risible defence, in my opinion, but some people have swallowed it like a piece of tainted steak!

The cynical amongst us wonder what he'd have come up with had the stage been in the Alps and not just over the Spanish border.

he got a friend or friend decided to bring some steak ?


shouldve stuck to fray bentos pie by the sound of it

 

[fozzy]

i do enjoy a fray bentos, but wouldn't like to be tested afterwards - that is not clean meat.

 

[frank9755]

... reflecting on this further, has the friend who gave him the meat been identified, did he actually come across that day, did he have receipts from a butchers, etc - ie do we know for sure that the steak did exist?

Probably I've just missed all of this by not reading the right mags!

@RichP ^^
That was more or less what I had picked up too.

 

[rich p]

Again, FWIW, I have read that clenb. tainted meat is common in China but almost only ever from pork as it doesn't stay active in beef.

The press trawled every butcher in the town where Bertie's pal said he'd bought the meat and found nothing and the local farmers were indignant apparently at the implid slur.

Bertie or Astana promised to provide the receipt but strangely it never appeared.

As I said before, the meat is a red herring - surf and turf anyone?

 

[dellzeqq]

Again, FWIW, I have read that clenb. tainted meat is common in China but almost only ever from pork as it doesn't stay active in beef.

The press trawled every butcher in the town where Bertie's pal said he'd bought the meat and found nothing and the local farmers were indignant apparently at the implid slur.

Bertie or Astana promised to provide the receipt but strangely it never appeared.

As I said before, the meat is a red herring - surf and turf anyone?

that's the sum of it. The beef thing is just not sustained by any evidence. The plasticiser thing reeks to high heaven - and the smell spreads right the way through spanish sport.

 

[StuAff]

Bertie used Twitter to link to this Telegraph article by Brendan Gallagher: Rugby Union players are exonerated while cyclists take the blame. How is that fair? - Telegraph. The 'poor me I'm being demonised' argument doesn't wash, unfortunately for him. The 'contaminated beef' claim stank. That the amounts of clenbuturol detected were not enough to enhance performance on their own makes no difference. Banned substance, period. AC would get more respect if he admitted his sins, served his time & redeemed himself like David Millar.

 

[frank9755]

We know that

a) Bertie has probably got a friend.

This is one of the many bits that just seems so improbable!

 

[yello]

Contaminated beef has been indicated as the source of clenbutorol in humans several times in the past; in Mexico, Italy and Spain. One of the Spanish cases was attributed to beef liver rather than meat. Have a look at the following blog for more info (including links to the research).

http://martinbudden.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/contador-–-cheat-or-bad-meat/

As I said, the story has got legs... and a tail and horns... just maybe not the clenb. Again, I personally don't buy it (the story or the meat) but what I think counts for nought.

It is not quite as simple as 'banned substance, end of', imho. And rightly so given precedent. People unknowingly ingest all manner of substances, some on sports' banned lists. They can't be blamed for that but, obviously, this fact can also be exploited by dopers. Put the saffer rugby buggers into whichever category you feel is appropriate there btw. Because that's what it will come down to eventually; someone somewhere making a judgement call on the evidence presented. The truth doesn't leap out and say 'pick me'.

So the powers that be allow for mitigation due to accidental ingestion. It still carries a penalty but it is not the same as being labelled a deliberate doper, as getting the full sentence would.

 

[MotorpointProCycling]

They reckon that a big reason for his being banned was that they found traces of plastic in his system similar to the plastic found after a blood transfusion.

That would also make sense as to why it was such a low amount of Clenbuterol, perhaps he didn't manage to get it all out of his system?

 

[Ghost Donkey]

They reckon that a big reason for his being banned was that they found traces of plastic in his system similar to the plastic found after a blood transfusion.

That would also make sense as to why it was such a low amount of Clenbuterol, perhaps he didn't manage to get it all out of his system?

That's the way I read it. I haven't seen anything official stating plasticisers were found rather than rumour and intrigue but that might just be me not reading properly. If it is true it would certainly give a reason why such a small amount was found in his blood. Hopefully the details of the case will be made public once it's all been put to rest one way or another.

I don't know about Spain but my local butchers doesn't give receipts unless asked. I doubt they would if I went back and asked for a receipt so I could prove they were selling illegal meat.

 

[rich p]

@ Ghost Donkey and MPC

If you read the thread you'll find that the plasticizer presence has been discussed in detail.