Pro Tour Punditry
Guru
I take it that you are making up what I think. Based on one comment. Which was true.
Has Grand Tour cycling just become about protected climbers?
- Thread starter A.Z.KOETSIER
- Start date
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OP
OP
A.Z.KOETSIER
Active Member
It has always been a team sport. I'm just surprised how seldom modern GC riders are exposed and left depending on their own abilities. I don't find TT's dull in fact I quite enjoy them (yes i'm the only person on earth that would prefer watching a TT over Marmion taking a shite), even TT haters must acknowledge the magic the TT brought to the 1989 TDF.
Bringing 7 days of TTs is of course not a solution to more exciting Grand Tours (many current riders would be to afraid to take on the challenge for a start). As you can see I have suggested removing radios and reducing team sizes as an alternative. 'Classic' stages are also a great solution as it separates the men from the boys.
Flying_Monkey
Recyclist
- Location
- Odawa
Each TdF is different. This one is more oriented towards pure climbers like Quintana or, ahem, Bardet or Pinot. This year's was not. The year Wiggins won certainly was not. And, the Tour has hardly ever come down to the last day. The other GTs set their priotities differently, and indeed it's hard to argue that there is any overall agenda seeing as they are run by different organisations, none are which are that friendly to the sport's governing body. Oh, and finally, GTs are not just about who wins the overall title. The other jersey competitions are interesting and particular stages are often the things that stay with me as a fan.
HF2300
Insanity Prawn Boy
No, it's perverse and worrying. Anyway I've heard his shite looks like Smash.
oldroadman
Veteran
- Location
- Ubique
making the dangerous assumption hat no poster has actually been near to a GT either as rider or staff...Nobody can race hard for three weeks. All riders and teams have off days, get ill, have a "jour sans", during a GT. It's just how things go. Hence a few transition stages where either the sprinters come out to play or a break gets home are fine. Simple fact - GTs are won in ITT or mountains. So a GC rider has to be a competent climber and decent ITT rider, able to sit in on the other stages, look out for what's happening, and be surrounded by a good team. A rider can be best there is, but no team support = no wins or even likely podiums. The big gains for a GC rider are ITT or mountain finishes, that's where it all happens and why sprinters don't win GTs. They have their own opportunities in flatter short stage races and one dayers.
The radio thing is spurious, a sport director can yell all day into the radio but if there are no legs available to do what he wants, it's all pointless.
So we have different riders, GC riders, opportunist rouleurs who mught grab a win on a transition stage, sprinters, domestiques doing their best to do their job and then get in before the elimination. Team sport, and all that, and far more complex than it appears at first sight, with many unwritten protocols that are broken at peril.
The radio thing is spurious, a sport director can yell all day into the radio but if there are no legs available to do what he wants, it's all pointless.
So we have different riders, GC riders, opportunist rouleurs who mught grab a win on a transition stage, sprinters, domestiques doing their best to do their job and then get in before the elimination. Team sport, and all that, and far more complex than it appears at first sight, with many unwritten protocols that are broken at peril.
OP
OP
A.Z.KOETSIER
Active Member
I agree with everything you are saying and I love all the races within the race, but do you think the 13km of ITT in 2015 balanced the fight for GC riders? I think it would be great to see riders like Tony Martin and Dumoulin fight for GC even if its just temporarily to defend yellow. But they would need some serious TT kilos (like the older Grand Tours) to get close.
Flying_Monkey
Recyclist
- Location
- Odawa
The balance is different every year. I don't know how many times this has to be said.
Dogtrousers
Kilometre nibbler
As a TV spectator, I particularly like watching the classics style days, and days with exposed crosswinds. Oh and big climb days. And I really like to watch the build up to a sprint, especially when the break has a smidge of a chance. And also I like to watch the teamwork of TTTs, and ITTs can be quite diverting too. Not too keen on rest days, tho.
OK, I admit it. I just like sitting on my backside in front of the telly.
OK, I admit it. I just like sitting on my backside in front of the telly.
ITTs have their place, but it's rare that anyone would rather watch a long one as opposed to a MTF. It wasn't that long ago that Wiggins won the TdF on an ITT loaded race in what was widely regarded to be the dullest race for years.
The Brits were willing to overlook that in the search for a British winner but that generosity of spirit wouldn't last long.
The Brits were willing to overlook that in the search for a British winner but that generosity of spirit wouldn't last long.
martint235
Dog on a bike
- Location
- Welling
I enjoy watching the big climb days because there's always the possibility that someone will attempt a breakaway or that a team leader will crack unexpectedly.
I don't think you need to alter the format of the days but reduce the teams to 6 riders and do away with race radio. That will: make it harder for a team to control; bring back the role of road captain (as well as the separate team leader) and mean that teams have to race every day as there will be more doubt about people off the front, splits etc.
I don't think you need to alter the format of the days but reduce the teams to 6 riders and do away with race radio. That will: make it harder for a team to control; bring back the role of road captain (as well as the separate team leader) and mean that teams have to race every day as there will be more doubt about people off the front, splits etc.
OP
OP
A.Z.KOETSIER
Active Member
'Balance'
Not to many millennia ago Tours had 150-200km of collective ITT distance. The Time Trail 'Heavy' tour Wiggins won only had 101km
When Fausto Coppi Won the tour Time trials were run across entire stages. The shortest TT in 1949 was a mere 92km with the second being a epic assault including mountains which ran over 137km, dear lord! (229km Total)
During the Merckx era total ITT distance wasn't that high. But there were up to 5 ITT stages mixing short explosive, medium and longer endurance efforts.
The 3 closest Tours in history all had over 100km of ITT.
1989 8sec
2007 23sec
2006 32sec.
The last time there was only 1 TT was back in 1955 (before Armstrong landed on the moon..apparently) and that was nearly 70km long.
The single 13km TT in 2015 is not exactly balanced, more an attempt to give a certain nation a chance on the podium, conspiracy!
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Pro Tour Punditry
Guru
Other Grand Tours are available.
dragon72
Guru
- Location
- Mexico City
Surprised nobody has mentioned big fat time bonuses for placing high in a stage yet.
oldroadman
Veteran
- Location
- Ubique
Neither are some riders, but it's nice to have a gentle ride days without pressure and a radio in the ear. Knackered team staff, organisation, officials, press, motos, etc. are a different story. And sometimes "rest" days mean a flight for the riders and massive drives for support staff and officials. Look in the face of anyone who has ridden or worked on GT and during the last week you just see extreme fatigue. Three weeks plus is a very long time on the road.
Stay with the telly, it's so much easier!
Pro Tour Punditry
Guru
I'll tell you what would be good to bring back - split stages.
