how does this STILL happen??
- Thread starter buggi
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jefmcg
Guru
Stupid google!
CopperCyclist
Veteran
I've been to one once. Member of public, absolutely fuming about a dog left in a car park in a field, at a car boot, in a Range Rover.
When we got there the lady was slightly inebriated (had been having a bbq) and took us to a German Shepherd, which was indeed locked in a Range Rover, in about 28 degree heat.
Thing was, the dog was fine, as the car was running with the air con on. It was still locked though - you could see the keys in the ignition. They had obviously felt it was safe to risk leaving it as it was 'blocked' in by cars front and back. *
I couldn't get through to the lady that the dog in question was probably a lot more comfortable than us!
*yes I'm aware of the offence of 'quitting'. No I didn't do anything about it. I also agree with anyone who thinks it wasn't a clever idea to leave the keys in a shiny Range Rover, though perhaps the dog was a guard dog - I wouldn't have tried it!
When we got there the lady was slightly inebriated (had been having a bbq) and took us to a German Shepherd, which was indeed locked in a Range Rover, in about 28 degree heat.
Thing was, the dog was fine, as the car was running with the air con on. It was still locked though - you could see the keys in the ignition. They had obviously felt it was safe to risk leaving it as it was 'blocked' in by cars front and back. *
I couldn't get through to the lady that the dog in question was probably a lot more comfortable than us!
*yes I'm aware of the offence of 'quitting'. No I didn't do anything about it. I also agree with anyone who thinks it wasn't a clever idea to leave the keys in a shiny Range Rover, though perhaps the dog was a guard dog - I wouldn't have tried it!
Cubist
Still wavin'
- Location
- Ovver 'thill
The offence of quitting is committed on a road, with the engine running and the handbrake not set. It's pretty hard to commit.
The offence of criminal damage specifically builds in its own defences, Section 1 (1 ) of the 1971 Act states:
"A person who without lawful excuse destroys or damages any property belonging to another intending to destroy or damage any such property or being reckless as to whether any such property would be destroyed or damaged shall be guilty of an offence."
The lawful excuse part is covered in Section 5:
" a defendant will have "lawful excuse" if
(a) at the time ... he believed that the person ... believed to be entitled to consent to the destruction or damage ... had so consented, or would have consented had they known ..., or
(b) he destroyed or damaged ... the property in question ... in order to protect property ... and at the time ... he believed—
(i) that the property ... was in immediate need of protection; and
(ii) that the means of protection ... were ... reasonable having regard to all the circumstances."
As long as the person damaging the property has an honestly held belief that it was necessary in order to protect property (and a dog is property) they do not commit an offence.
No need to resort to urban myths about spark plug ceramics either, just smash the window and save the dog.
The offence of criminal damage specifically builds in its own defences, Section 1 (1 ) of the 1971 Act states:
"A person who without lawful excuse destroys or damages any property belonging to another intending to destroy or damage any such property or being reckless as to whether any such property would be destroyed or damaged shall be guilty of an offence."
The lawful excuse part is covered in Section 5:
" a defendant will have "lawful excuse" if
(a) at the time ... he believed that the person ... believed to be entitled to consent to the destruction or damage ... had so consented, or would have consented had they known ..., or
(b) he destroyed or damaged ... the property in question ... in order to protect property ... and at the time ... he believed—
(i) that the property ... was in immediate need of protection; and
(ii) that the means of protection ... were ... reasonable having regard to all the circumstances."
As long as the person damaging the property has an honestly held belief that it was necessary in order to protect property (and a dog is property) they do not commit an offence.
No need to resort to urban myths about spark plug ceramics either, just smash the window and save the dog.
I've been posting from Ikea for ten years. I'm somewhere in the bedding department and haven't been able to find my way out.
Cubist
Still wavin'
- Location
- Ovver 'thill
Here's quitting just to clear things up: (Construction and Use 1986 regulation 107)
Leaving motor vehicles unattended
107.—(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), no person shall leave, or cause or permit to be left, on a road a motor vehicle which is not attended by a person licensed to drive it unless the engine is stopped and any parking brake with which the vehicle is required to be equipped is effectively set.
(2) The requirement specified in paragraph (1) as to the stopping of the engine shall not apply in respect of a vehicle—
(a)being used for ambulance, fire brigade or police purposes; or
(b)in such a position and condition as not to be likely to endanger any person or property and engaged in an operation which requires its engine to be used to—
(i)drive machinery forming part of, or mounted on, the vehicle and used for purposes other than driving the vehicle; or
(ii)maintain the electrical power of the batteries of the vehicle at a level required for driving that machinery or apparatus.
(3) In this regulation “parking brake” means a brake fitted to a vehicle in accordance with requirement 16 or 18 in Schedule 3.
Leaving motor vehicles unattended
107.—(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), no person shall leave, or cause or permit to be left, on a road a motor vehicle which is not attended by a person licensed to drive it unless the engine is stopped and any parking brake with which the vehicle is required to be equipped is effectively set.
(2) The requirement specified in paragraph (1) as to the stopping of the engine shall not apply in respect of a vehicle—
(a)being used for ambulance, fire brigade or police purposes; or
(b)in such a position and condition as not to be likely to endanger any person or property and engaged in an operation which requires its engine to be used to—
(i)drive machinery forming part of, or mounted on, the vehicle and used for purposes other than driving the vehicle; or
(ii)maintain the electrical power of the batteries of the vehicle at a level required for driving that machinery or apparatus.
(3) In this regulation “parking brake” means a brake fitted to a vehicle in accordance with requirement 16 or 18 in Schedule 3.
shouldbeinbed
Rollin' along
- Location
- Manchester way
No different then to every cyclist down, had a near miss, idiot shouts at helmetcammer thread that gets posted.
Where does the line of censorship get drawn on what we are and aren't allowed to post in the general chat area of an open access, worldwide forum?
CopperCyclist
Veteran
Ah, never realised handbrake was required (or the lack of one). Ta!
(not that I'll ever give a ticket or summons anyway - traffics not my thing
)
Cubist
Still wavin'
- Location
- Ovver 'thill
unless the engine is stopped and any parking brake with which the vehicle is required to be equipped is effectively set
(unless the engine is left running to run machinery or maintain the battery levels) so your council drivers would simply state that they are on short trips, and need to leave the engine running to save the batteries.
[QUOTE 3779893, member: 9609"]To me, that law reads as though it would be an offence to leave the engine running with or without the parking brake set... so it would be an offence easily committed and often is by my local council who often leave vehicles unattended with the engine on.[/QUOTE]
(unless the engine is left running to run machinery or maintain the battery levels) so your council drivers would simply state that they are on short trips, and need to leave the engine running to save the batteries.
[QUOTE 3779893, member: 9609"]To me, that law reads as though it would be an offence to leave the engine running with or without the parking brake set... so it would be an offence easily committed and often is by my local council who often leave vehicles unattended with the engine on.[/QUOTE]
NorthernDave
Never used Über Member
- Location
- The real Northern Powerhouse
Our local Neighbourhood Policing Team tweeted this week that anyone spotting a dog locked in a car in this weather should call 999.
And quite right too.
And quite right too.
Saluki
World class procrastinator
- Location
- ...Norwich over the water.
It's in common use in Norfolk as well.
LOL I suppose not, but I do think we shouldn't be too over sensitive . We'll be afraid to talk soon!
Mrs M
Guru
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
A dog was recently left in a car at one of the local retail parks up here.
Concerned onlookers reported it and the police came and smashed the car windows and rescued the dog.
It was in the car on a baking hot day for over an hour.
Concerned onlookers reported it and the police came and smashed the car windows and rescued the dog.
It was in the car on a baking hot day for over an hour.
Piemaster
Guru
- Location
- UK City of Culture
@CopperCyclist I'm guessing in the instance you quote the 'quitting' thing wouldn't amount to anything anyway as 'it was in a car park in a field' so not on public road anyway?
PhilDawson8270
Veteran
If it is accessible from public road, even by trespass. The road traffic act still applies.
