International Rugby League V Union

[david k]

Just watched the final of the RL 4 Nations, the whole tournament has been amazing. The strength, skills, rugby on show has been nothing short of fantastic. The BIG HITs are enough to watch it alone.

I find Rugby Union boring, kick, kick, kick, scrum, kick, mall, kick etc etc.

So why does everyone watch RU?

The diversion between the games is such a fantastic read due to social history, schisms and in France just pure illegal !

Highlights are on at 1pm on BBC1 - I would watch it if you like sport

 

[mcshroom]

I like both, but they are very different games. RL has been stripped down to an agility sport, with most of the power skills taken out. It does make it more watchable, but also makes it easy to get far more predictable IMHO. Play five tackles, kick the ball, let the other side do the same, repeat.

RU is more subtle, with more power elements. I really enjoy watching a good rolling maul, or the competition in a scrum (I have only ever seen one ball won against the head in a RL scrum, by Yorkshire Academy against Cumbria Academy). Also you don't get to wait out the 6 tackles when defending, or when attacking you need to keep recycling the ball.

Don't get me wrong though. Both sports are great IMHO and I like watching (and occasionally playing) both

 

[Wafer]

I'm the opposite, I love watching RU but RL seems to be run, tackle, get up, give someone else ball, run, tackle etc... on 5th tackle kick, lose possession, opposition does the same... and the general tackling hasn't seemed that big.

RU with lots of kicking isn't fun, but that doesn't actually happen all that often.

It'd be good if they can sort scrums out a bit more, but set pieces are part of the attraction with the skills required to pull them off, potential for team not throwing/feeding the scrum to steal it etc...

Also being in the South West there's not a lot of RL around to see, having Exeter 30 mins away and Bath/Bristol/Gloucester up the M5 makes it a lot more accessible.

 

[AndyRM]

What @mcshroom said. Although the scrum is becoming an increasingly frustrating contest. We must have lost 15 minutes of the game to Warren Barnes f*cking about with it in the Scotland Argentina game last week.

 

[Diggs]

I'm firmly in the RU camp but being of a certain vintage, the only televised club rugby we had (apart from Rugby Special highlights on Sunday night) was RL. So I enjoyed those Saturdays as a kid with daddy Diggs in front of the fire watching RL on Grandstand.
However both games have changed a lot since those days, with Union taking a lot from League

 

[Pro Tour Punditry]

I like both as well, but Union gets my vote over League if we are having a (non) vote. I recently went to watch Scotland v France in the RL European Championship and left at half time; it was a dull and predictable tackle, tackle, etc...kick. There were some big hits and a few moments of good play but not enough for me to stay for another 40 minutes of the same. It probably didn't help that France were miles ahead, although I doubt I would have stayed had Scotland been in the lead.

I watch club rugby most weekends when it's on (Melrose) and never tire watching it; when Melrose are playing too far away for me to travel (I need to look after daughter, dogs, cats and horse when my wife works some weekends) I sometimes pop over to watch the lower-league rugby union club; I usually last the first half with them, similar to what I did with the RL international. So does that mean that international RL is really "pub league" union equivalent?

 

[david k]

Some very interesting replies.

RL can become a bit 5 tackles then kick but that is the teams trying to tire each other out before they attack, it is good if you watch it through as you can see pressure building. Todays game was a great example, and some of the skills on show where excellent, on TV now!

RU has taken a lot from RL (Actually their teams in France!) and use RL in their training and many RL coaches in RU.

IMO RU is only dominant due to more teams, leading to more exposure etc. its self fulfilling

So many RL supporters are bitter over the history and IMO rightly so, when i travel and talk about this so many RU supporters dont know the history

The forbidden game - great read, the Nazis eh!

 

[Joey Shabadoo]

RU is getting to be a bit more like RL in that wetalk about 4th, 5th and even 6th phase possession now. The ball is rarely lost in the tackle and it's become a territory slog. Which is a shame as RU used to be about pace and looking for the gaps.

I also think professionalism has changed RU in that the players are like frickin tanks on steroids and coke. When Jonah Lomu ran all over the top of England in 95 it was hilarious but he was regarded as a freak. Huge wingers are pretty common now.

 

[Pro Tour Punditry]

So many RL supporters are bitter over the history and IMO rightly so, when i travel and talk about this so many RU supporters dont know the history...

If you rely on "heritage" as an attraction then you're at risk of being lumped alongside Liverpool FC supporters (cross-thread banter, eh?)

I've just watched the NZ v Aus. game and enjoyed it as a spectacle - probably as there were moments of great skill as well as "power" tackles. It's much better when the ball moves through the air every now and again rather than it moving tucked under an arm.

RL is a much changed game than when I used to watch it in the early 90s when I lived in Australia, although international RU is probably even more changed than when I used to play (not international but union!); back then you could tell the difference between the forwards (big lads) and the backs (wee lads), nowadays I see backs who look like props and it's hard to tell (apart from the number on the back) who plays what position. It's not quite as bad at club level although some of the backs at Melrose are 6 foot plus and built like an outdoor privy. When the "pros" come back and play there is a noticeable difference; I remember seeing Nicky Walker (Hawick winger) in the flesh for the first time and realising just how different the pro game is to what it used to be.
But I still prefer Union.

 

[david k]

The history is a very interesting read, IME RU players and fans like RL and speak highly of it, often they dont watch live games as its only played professionally at the top level in the North and France.
But RL supporters see it waaay differently, being bitter may not have any benefit but its not easy to forget to easy either. Banning any player who plays RL from ever playing RU gain was out of order and only lifted in the mid 90's!!!!! Taking all the money off RL clubs and forcing them them to play RU or hand over all assets to RU is mind boggling. Theres even storied of players being banned for playing against touring teams that had previously played RU. That and the class system looking down on RL - its reasonable to be peeed off
I find the history of the two codes very interesting insight into people and self interest

 

[david k]

Quote "The French Rugby Union's collusion with the Nazi-backed Vichy Government to ban Rugby League is one of the most shameful episodes in the history of sport, as a review of the cover says.
It all but destroyed a sport that was, at the time, threatening to overtake rugby union in popularity terms"

from a review of this book

another quote

The split in rugby in 1895 between what became rugby league and rugby union arose as a direct result of a dispute over the pretence of a strict enforcement of its amateur status - clubs in Leeds and Bradford were fined after compensating players for missing work, whilst at the same time the Rugby Football Union (RFU) was allowing other players to be paid

 

[Pro Tour Punditry]

Aye, I completely agree re the history and the class thing - rugby union in the Borders is a working man's game, which probably sets it apart from rugby union elsewhere in Scotland which tended to have its roots in public schools. I was not raised in the Borders but was lucky enough to have a headmaster who came from the Borders and introduced us to "a working man's game"

 

[david k]

I find in Wales they dont have the class issue with the game, they really like their RL, just difficult to get a fotthold when RU so strong and historic in the region. There are 2 pro clubs in Wales. Theres a 6 team league in the south west, and amateur RL has grown tremendously in the last 10 years (prob due to RU dropping their rules on not coming back). I read that in 2004 there were 30k registered players and 2014 there were 300k, still about 25% of RU but shows growth at the lower levels, will it ever turn into pro? id be very surprised but Gloucester, coventry and some others are getting stronger in RL and want to climb the leagues

 

[david k]

heres another which is just plain crazy!

Discrimination
Discrimination against rugby league players could verge on the petty - former Welsh international Fred Perrett was once excluded in lists of players who died in the First World War due to his 'defection' to the league code.
One Member of Parliament, David Hinchliffe, described it as "one of the longest (and daftest) grievances in history" with anyone over the age of 18 associated with rugby league being banned forever from rugby union.

 

[Wafer]

To be fair, I'm watching England V South Africa now & I think in general I prefer watching the Exeter Chiefs in the Premiership than some of the international stuff. I love the 6 Nations, probably my favourite sporting event, but the premiership can be more fun to watch than the way international teams play at times.

The history may be interesting/shocking, but it doesn't change the fact that all the RL I've seen (admittedly not loads, but I've tried) I've found boring and 1 dimensional. That's fine though, I don't have anything against the game, I just don't personally enjoy it, glad others do. At the same time I find Cricket and some cycling riveting, sports many others would describe as boring