Jonathon Tiernan Locke blood passport iffy? (ToB title for Haas?)

[Pro Tour Punditry]

I'm not sure this reflects too well on Pat, Pat's son (Andrew Macquaid) is JTL's agent... oops!

His dad had taught him well:
In a statement released immediately after the UCI announcement confirming the biological passport violation, Tiernan-Locke’s agent Andrew McQuaid said that his client would contest the charges that had been brought against him.

“Mr Tiernan-Locke vehemently denies the charges brought against him and has informed the UCI that he fully intends to contest them. Mr Tiernan-Locke will not ride for Team Sky, attend training camps or undertake any team duties until a decision is made in these proceedings. Mr Tiernan-Locke is looking forward to a speedy and just resolution of these unfortunate charges. Until a decision has been reached, Mr Tiernan-Locke will make no further comment on the matter."

I'm surprised he managed to get all those words out, what with his head buried deep in the sand and all.

 

[smutchin]

I think Endura's anti-doping policy went something like this:

Team manager - "We have a 'no doping' policy, is that clear to everyone?"
Riders - "Er, yeah, sure.."

Much like Vini Fantini's "anti-doping policy" then.

 

[thom]

I've always agreed with the bit in bold but i recall when Horner won the Vuelta the majority of regulars, who hang out in the pro lobby, had him hung out to dry. There is far more reason now to believe JTL has doped. Is it because he is British that we refuse to pass judgment without facts?

Someone in the Vuelta forum cleverly summed it up with "if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck....................". Well in JTL's case it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck and they have taken DNA and it turns out it is 99% certain it is a duck.

What excuse, reason or evidence could he possibly produce to disprove and dispel all doubt?

I think I argued to hold off condemning Horner at the time as it happens.

Point is, I have no knowledge of the DNA - do you ? I think this process is and should be completely confidential, so the only thing in terms of DNA that any of us have is the success rate of the accusatory body in terms of their conviction rate. I myself know no specific details of the case - do you ?

 

[smutchin]

I've always agreed with the bit in bold but i recall when Horner won the Vuelta the majority of regulars, who hang out in the pro lobby, had him hung out to dry. There is far more reason now to believe JTL has doped. Is it because he is British that we refuse to pass judgment without facts?

There are different kinds of facts. In Horner's case, his performance in the Vuelta was, to use the duck analogy, positively quackers. JTL has never produced anything so visibly conclusive (and certainly not as high profile), although as has been noted, the variability in his performances over the past couple of years has caused a few raised eyebrows.

Crackle's earlier mention of his nationality was ironic.

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

I think I argued to hold off condemning Horner at the time as it happens.

Point is, I have no knowledge of the DNA - do you ? I think this process is and should be completely confidential, so the only thing in terms of DNA that any of us have is the success rate of the accusatory body in terms of their conviction rate. I myself know no specific details of the case - do you ?

There are different kinds of facts. In Horner's case, his performance in the Vuelta was, to use the duck analogy, positively quackers. JTL has never produced anything so visibly conclusive (and certainly not as high profile), although as has been noted, the variability in his performances over the past couple of years has caused a few raised eyebrows.

Crackle's earlier mention of his nationality was ironic.

I don't know the specifics Thom but i do know that it is an official case being made against JTL. There was no such case against Horner, only speculation. Whilst it is easier to condemn a rider you care less for, a doped rider is still a doped rider - if JTL is found to be just that.

I think if it was Johnny Foreigner who was in JTL's position then it might have been mentioned by now that he is a tremendous bawbag worthy of a stoning. I mean he's no rookie, his decisions are his own and, if found guilty, he has spat directly in the face of British cycling and what it stands for.

Smutchin it has more than raised eyebrows. His performances were not consistent before or after the 2012 or TOB. It is to team Sky's credit that he has become average as it would indicate that he is completely clean, now.

 

[thom]

I think if it was Johnny Foreigner who was in JTL's position then it might have been mentioned by now that he is a tremendous bawbag worthy of a stoning. I mean he's no rookie, his decisions are his own and, if found guilty, he has spat directly in the face of British cycling and what it stands for.

Sorry - I think you might re-read the rest of my post to see an expression of no sympathy towards someone who has been proved a cheat.
I find your posts a little bizarre at the moment ...

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

There are different kinds of facts. In Horner's case, his performance in the Vuelta was, to use the duck analogy, positively quackers. .

Not necessarily. Some predicted that Horner was a contender who could win the Vuelta. One director sportif was quoted saying Horner was his favourite to win, before stage 1.

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

Sorry - I think you might re-read the rest of my post to see an expression of no sympathy towards someone who has been proved a cheat.
I find your posts a little bizarre at the moment ...

Oh, i thought you were essentially saying that we don't know for sure until the verdict is read out?

 

[thom]

Oh, i thought you were essentially saying that we don't know for sure until the verdict is read out?

I was saying that instead of feeling sorry for a guy at 30 with a lost career who would have been proved to have cheated, he would be a cheat not worthy of any sympathy - I was specifically stating that at that point he ought to be condemned. Other people have pointed out that this process is pretty consistent in convicting anyone accused so it does not look good for him but fundamentally I think it is pretty foolish to totally condemn him now when there is a rigorous process going with the express purpose, opaque to us, of giving fair hearing to facts.

We'll find out in due course, so chill out, its is not about you or me - I don't feel the need to dance on his grave just yet.

 

[Crackle]

Can we leave Horner in the corner, while we're sending JTL to 'ell.

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

I was saying that instead of feeling sorry for a guy at 30 with a lost career who would have been proved to have cheated, he would be a cheat not worthy of any sympathy - I was specifically stating that at that point he ought to be condemned. Other people have pointed out that this process is pretty consistent in convicting anyone accused so it does not look good for him but fundamentally I think it is pretty foolish to totally condemn him now when there is a rigorous process going with the express purpose, opaque to us, of giving fair hearing to facts.

We'll find out in due course, so chill out, its is not about you or me - I don't feel the need to dance on his grave just yet.

Cool agreed. Was merely pointing out that others have been found guilty before trial. I also noticed they weren't British.

As i said though, i am very much in agreement with you RE wait till the results are in. I argued this case with Horner, who is from now on in the corner, and most weren't too interested in facts or results, just speculation.

It's all good though, i am chilled. Just typing whilst thinking.

Hmmm, leaving myself open to some wit on that last comment.................

 

[oldroadman]

Quote Horner if you wish, but also consider Cobo in the Vuelta, hardly a stellar career then thumps everyone on a massive climbing stage to win the GC.
Notice a parallel? No, neither do I.
Horner was consistently around the top level and a quality domestique for ages, then off the leash and gets a win. Cobo has delivered diddly squat worth mentioning since the Vuelta win.
With J T-L I still hope there is a good explanation for the form, and that different training methods which may have been a problem along with (according to reports) the requirement to get super thin may have affected performance. Eventually all will become clear.

 

[tigger]

I expect there's no smoke without a fire, but I'm not convinced the biological passport system is anywhere near advanced enough to take account for what something like the Epstein Barr virus can do to an elite athlete. It's a virus which can cause glandular fever in some but reoccur and even manifest as cancer in others. And no one knows what causes it or why it manifests so differently in individuals...

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

I expect there's no smoke without a fire, but I'm not convinced the biological passport system is anywhere near advanced enough to take account for what something like the Epstein Barr virus can do to an elite athlete. It's a virus which can cause glandular fever in some but reoccur and even manifest as cancer in others. And no one knows what causes it or why it manifests so differently in individuals...

The real danger there is the exploitation of little-understood illnesses as a masking alibi.

 

[User169]

No, exactly. It really stinks. But I'm not sure that the UCI's action was buried for very long, just long enough to stop P McQ getting flak for conflict of interest.

Not sure that's the case: the fact that UCI was asking JTL for an explanation shouldn't have been made public. Where a rider's passport is red-flagged, it's only supposed to be made public if the rider can't convince those screening the passports that there is an innocent explanation. JTL evidently couldn't convince them, so now it goes to a full doping enquiry - it's only now though that this should all have been made public.