Kennington. LCC and TfL foolishness. Now it's personal.

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mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
TfL drawing. TfL consultation. What's LCC's involvement?
 

StuAff

Silencing his legs regularly
Location
Portsmouth
Extremely dumb. I've used that junction a few times to & from Brixton and can't recall thinking there were any issues with it. It wasn't broken and they certainly haven't fixed it....
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
LCC are usually consulted first I believe or come up with these ideas in the first place. I can't say I'm a huge fan of LCC myself
Ah, it's just a belief that LCC were consulted and listened to, rather than anything we know? :rolleyes:

I've looked a bit closer and this seems to be in a 2014 consultation on a TfL-initiated scheme https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/betterjunctions/oval - LCC are listed on page 32 in the report as consulted, but aren't shown on pages 20-21 as having responded, which seems a bit of a surprise.

I quite like LCC (they're a sibling of my local group rides) and I think they often get blamed on this site for things which aren't theirs, but I know they're not 100% perfect or consistent.
If they think cyclists will stick to the segregated lane there, they have another thing coming. What a cluster f
I think it's good if there's so many people on bikes that they fill the carriageway too, don't you?
 

Sittingduck

Legendary Member
Location
Somewhere flat
I think it's good if there's so many people on bikes that they fill the carriageway too, don't you?

Actually no, I don't. The cyclists there do not fill the carriageway. The tend to spread out a little bit in the ASZ next to Oval stn. As the lights change they disperse, some turning left, most going straight on and occupying the CS7 lane that is there. Some may need to be in the main left lane, as there is another busy junction coming up that has a further split of left and stright on traffic. I have ridden this stretch of road many times and the current setup there tends to work. Danger of a left hook at Oval, but unlikely due to the afforementioned number of bikes in the ASZ and motorised vehicles are generally behind the first stop line, where they should be. Cyclists in the lane moving straight on are not much of an impediment to other vehicles, as there's a ped crossing that almost always causes all road users to slow or stop, just after the Oval lights go green.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Personally, I don't think the Oval junction is the main difficulty with the as-seen-in-2014 layout. I found it difficult going straight on on CS7 when the A23 turned left, partly because the CS7 markings stopped on the left side and then just restarted in the next lane without any warning that I noticed (but I do get a bit overwhelmed trying to watch everything when riding in London). It was worse heading south than north and I suspect from the redesign that I ended up on the left side of motorists turning left down Brixton Road when I was trying to go straight ahead past Oval station, but I didn't have the camera with me then.

There weren't many other people riding bikes when I was there last time, but I think it was a Saturday.

It doesn't look noticeably worse to me than what's there - some losses, some gains - but what would be the best solution there?
 

martint235

Dog on a bike
Location
Welling
My prejudices against the LCC aren't really based on stuff I read here. They are largely based on the crappy emails LCC send to me themselves. They tend to be overly patronising and "Ooh look at us! We know what's best for you even more than you know yourself". I put them in the gap between BC and CTC and I can't say I'm a huge fan of CTC.
 
Three quarters of a mile up the road towards Elephant and Castle there's a five metre wide segregated bus and cycle lane. That can't accommodate all the cyclists of the morning rush hour and that is i) five metres wide and ii) not immediately bottlenecked by a light controlled junction.

Confining that number of London rush-hour cyclists at the Oval to that small a space while accommodating two diverging paths and traffic lights is a recipe for constant blue on blue incidents. The southbound A3/A23 junction has barely any capacity at all before the separate streams will foul.

The consequences of encountering any misbehaving traffic, of any type, look far more severe, harder to mitigate and likely to be more frequent than at present.

Looking solely at cyclists' behaviour, using the straight, consistent CS7 along Kennington Park Road is dicey enough at the moment. Now I am happy to recognise that the boom in cycling means that some of the pleasures of London cycling past have gone forever, that sharing a wonderfully convenient mode of transport with countless thousands is going to be slightly less convenient than those times when I was seemingly tootling around on my own twenty-five years ago, I shall never dash from the fringes of Bromley to the Southbank in under twenty minutes ever again; the gains of a wider recognition and enjoyment of cycling though are worth the compromises and they are easy and sensible accommodations to make. These changes at Oval are not sensible, and I can see few cyclists that currently use the junction materially benefiting, further there are probably an awful lot of people that will fail to make sensible accommodations for this sub-standard design and make its daily use even more unpleasant and fraught. It seems to be a scheme for exporting the congestion, frustration and some of the worries of motoring to the world of cycle commuting. This will be a barrier to many taking up or continuing cycling. I don't think a better attempt could be made at limiting capacity on a 'cycle superhighway'.
 
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