Motorway Road Rage - Brits are idiots when they arrive at roadworks

[mybike]

[QUOTE 3658137, member: 45"]Try reading the opinions, arguments and the limited modelling and research available to google, and the valid points put across on here, and then have a think about what you're saying.[/QUOTE]

I do.

[QUOTE 3658137, member: 45"]The queue is half as long over two lanes than just one. All other things being equal, this doesn't reduce the length of time to get through. But, as said before, shorter queues are less likely to block junctions. And if drivers merge towards the front this removes the "polite" drivers getting wound up at being passed and doing stupid things which do slow the traffic.[/QUOTE]

The queue is exactly the same length, but spread over two lanes. That means that there are two lanes blocked instead of one and there is extra delay caused by drivers changing lanes.

[QUOTE 3658137, member: 45"]As always, people are focusing on what others should do rather than what they should themselves. See my sig line.[/QUOTE]

Not at all, not that I think the HC is that good a document. I think those who don't think enough have too much input to it.

 

[Archie_tect]

Paul, you've made this point many, many times. People start to queue when they reach the back of a line of stationary vehicles because they have seen the lane closure signs in advance.

The only way you will change behaviour is to put LARGE signs up telling people to queue in both lanes and then merge in turn, where this is done the queues don't diminish unless the traffic through the roadworks or past the accident can maintain is a reasonably fast average speed without stopping.

If the traffic has come to a complete halt with traffic building up quickly behind it then drivers just have to be patient and sit it out.

A perfect example of five lanes merging into one with merge in turn could be seen at the entrance to the Tyne Tunnel on the A19. When it was reasonably quiet, and traffic kept moving through the tunnel, merge in turn worked perfectly. But, at rush hour, or if the tunnel traffic was slow or stopped, the bottlemeck caused by merge in turn was chaotic. When the tunnels became 2 lane the problem was eased but rush hour chaos occurs when people constantly change lanes to attempt to make progress.

Queuing in a single line before the blockage allows moving traffic through the blockage to pick up and maintain a reasonable speed without having o stop to let people in at the lane closures..

 

[Dan B]

The queue is exactly the same length, but spread over two lanes. That means that there are two lanes blocked instead of one and there is extra delay caused by drivers changing lanes.

How is having two lanes blocked by cars any worse than having one lane blocked by cars and the other lane blocked by "politeness" and/or vigilante self-gratification artists? And if the drivers at the front are merging in turn, the lines behind them are moving at the same speed so nobody will see any advantage in changing lanes.

 

[Arrowfoot]

[QUOTE 3658137, member: 45"]Try reading the opinions, arguments and the limited modelling and research available to google, and the valid points put across on here, and then have a think about what you're saying.

The queue is half as long over two lanes than just one. All other things being equal, this doesn't reduce the length of time to get through. But, as said before, shorter queues are less likely to block junctions. And if drivers merge towards the front this removes the "polite" drivers getting wound up at being passed and doing stupid things which do slow the traffic.

As always, people are focusing on what others should do rather than what they should themselves. See my sig line.[/QUOTE]

If its a single lane open and there is a long tail queue formed earlier, the traffic will go thru faster, no different to a funnel. The merging would have taken place much earlier. This is basic science. Surely most of society have worked that out thus the long single queue formed earlier. When the advanced traffic signs says 2 lanes are opened, you can see motorists forming 2 long queues.

I thought the access for emergency vehicles was important as well.

 

[mybike]

How is having two lanes blocked by cars any worse than having one lane blocked by cars and the other lane blocked by "politeness" and/or vigilante self-gratification artists? And if the drivers at the front are merging in turn, the lines behind them are moving at the same speed so nobody will see any advantage in changing lanes.

Merging in turn is slower than merging further back, as has been pointed out.

 

[Archie_tect]

Try driving in Jakarta... there's a three lane motorway from the airport which has 5 lines of moving traffic on it filtering down to a two lane urban street at a roundabout- nobody ever gives way or leaves a space and they don't merge in turn or queue at all.... the result is gridlock for hours and hours.

 

[swee'pea99]

For my money, this is yet another example of our over-observed society's failure to capitalise on the potential upside of intrusive technology to address a basic but addressable issue.

Compare bus lanes. Bus lanes in London work. People don't drive in them, because they have learned that if you do, you get busted. You get a little CCTV pic through the post, along with a demand for a couple of hundred quid - 50% off if you pay now.

Compare motorway merging. The current system fails either to a) optimise the speed at which traffic can get past the obstruction, or b) ensure 'fairness' - basically, people 'taking their turn'.

How about if instead new rules were introduced, whereby, say, when you see the first sign saying 'You must merge', you must merge into the clear lane. When you see the second sign saying 'You must merge', you MUST merge - really. Because if you're still in the 'wrong lane' by the time you reach the next sign, within the next fortnight you will receive in the post etc.

This way, no-one is incentivised to push in, no-one gets their knickers in a twist, merging takes place at a good distance from the obstruction - therefore as a general rule with bigger gaps and less angst - and the traffic flow is smoother and, overall, better for everyone.

Of course that would take imagination, and initiative, and effort. Dream on, eh?

 

[Archie_tect]

LARGE SIGNS 1 mile, 800/ 600 metres and 400 metres from the blockage saying, "USE BOTH LANES" until 200 metres from the confluence where an even larger sign says "MERGE IN TURN" with a large flashing light and a bright yellow hazard camera housing attached... then it might work!

 

[Dan B]

[QUOTE 3658242, member: 45"]That could work. But what would undoubtedly work is if drivers get over them selves and defer to others[/QUOTE]

 

[mybike]

You know, when I arrive at those 50 limit signs on motorway roadworks I tend to sneak into the nearside lane, drop my speed to 50 and watch everyone else go past while a lorry joins itself to my back bumper. There is no way you will get drivers to merge in turn in the UK without forcing them to. I've seen it done in Sweden and Germany as a passenger but the drivers seemed much more patient.

 

[subaqua]

LARGE SIGNS 1 mile, 800/ 600 metres and 400 metres from the blockage saying, "USE BOTH LANES" until 200 metres from the confluence where an even larger sign says "MERGE IN TURN" with a large flashing light and a bright yellow hazard camera housing attached... then it might work!

that happens. and where it does guess what.



It works

 

[Archie_tect]

Mind you there are situations where merging in turn can't work but people still abuse the system. On the A1 travelling north there are several situations where three lanes reduce to two with the inner lane changing to the slip road for a junction.

When the traffic backs up to combine the 3 lanes to 2 people keep clear of the inner lane allowing vehicles turning off onto the slip road to get off without being held up. There are always selfish prats who drive up the inside slip lane and push in at the front of the queue then holding up slip lane traffic and causing hassle for everyone else further back....

AND while I'm on a rant.... :-) how do you feel about the people who drive up the right turn lane approaching roundabouts and drive all the way around them to go straight on because they can avoid the queue for the straight-on route which seriously delays everyone else.

 

[Archie_tect]

You know, when I arrive at those 50 limit signs on motorway roadworks I tend to sneak into the nearside lane, drop my speed to 50 and watch everyone else go past while a lorry joins itself to my back bumper. There is no way you will get drivers to merge in turn in the UK without forcing them to. I've seen it done in Sweden and Germany as a passenger but the drivers seemed much more patient.

Ah, the joy of 52mph cruise control....

 

[subaqua]

Here's another moronic face-off between knights of the road: http://home.bt.com/lifestyle/motori...-revenge-on-idiot-queue-jumper-11363977070405
"I'm more important than you!"
"No, I am more important than you!"
Like I said - Clarksonworld.

the world is going to end.

TMN TMNed themselves

 

[subaqua]

Mind you there are situations where merging in turn can't work but people still abuse the system. On the A1 travelling north there are several situations where three lanes reduce to two with the inner lane changing to the slip road for a junction.

When the traffic backs up to combine the 3 lanes to 2 people keep clear of the inner lane allowing vehicles turning off onto the slip road to get off without being held up. There are always selfish prats who drive up the inside slip lane and push in at the front of the queue then holding up slip lane traffic and causing hassle for everyone else further back....

AND while I'm on a rant.... :-) how do you feel about the people who drive up the right turn lane approaching roundabouts and drive all the way around them to go straight on because they can avoid the queue for the straight-on route which seriously delays everyone else.

How can they delay anybody ? if the person in the right lane can proceed the person in the lane to the left of them must be able to.

when I come off the end of the M11 to the A12 , I often go along to Ilford and spin round at that Junction as its quicker than queuing down the sliproad to redbridge RAB. is that wrong - or making progress.