RATS!

[Arch]

You make me sick!!
We need wasps and bees, and you go and kill them? Shame on you!!!

I don't kill bees, and I rarely kill wasps. Look, I'm perfectly aware that some animals need to be controlled and perfectly prepared to do it if I have to. All I'm saying is, pouring boiling water on them is a horrible way to do it. And most people seem to agree. I know it wasn't you that did it, but you did seem to report it with a certain anount of relish.

 

[Joe24]

I don't kill bees, and I rarely kill wasps. Look, I'm perfectly aware that some animals need to be controlled and perfectly prepared to do it if I have to. All I'm saying is, pouring boiling water on them is a horrible way to do it. And most people seem to agree. I know it wasn't you that did it, but you did seem to report it with a certain anount of relish.

MURDERER!!!!!!!!
Killing wasps? Thats mean. Infact, i think you will often kill ants, and other flies. I can just imagine it!
Wasps do actually do something aswell, they go around scaring people.

 

[GavinB]

Who here has tipped salt onto slugs? Thats animal cruelty on how they die.

Not me.

You're comparing an invertebrate to a mammal with a fully developed nervous system that is similar to our own, do you realise?

And you do realise how poison kills rats dont you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_poison
They basilcly die slowly, from their blood not clotting. So they slowly bleed to death. So obviously, they are going to be in pain for days untill they do die.

Depends on the poison. But yes, poison on the whole is bad and also has secondary effects. I don't use it. But then again, internal bleeding puts one into an incredibly weak and drowsy state, eventually you go into a state of unconsciousness and die. As far as burns are concerned, they are much much more painful.

But we're not talking about poison, or about putting salt on slugs. Point is, you have a rat in a cage and therefore have a choice to how to dispose of it. Are you seriously trying to defend the choice of using boiling water to kill the animal?

So i hope the oens that have moaned about killing rats slowly, will be moaning about using poison on rats, or even when companies test products on rats.

Animal testing is strictly regulated, and has to go through a lot of loops and hurdles before it is approved. There are standards that must be maintained because it's the law, it's not like someone has a lab rat in a cage pouring boiling water over it.

And that you dont have any products that have been tested on rats or by companies that test on animals because they will cause rats harm.

Your strawman argument is not going to work here. If you think pouring hot scalding water on a rat to kill it is acceptable, then maybe you need to re-evaluate your humanity. That you could even defend such an act is ludicrous. It is like you're missing the point that a quick, humane kill > painful, torotorus one.

This isn't about animal testing, or poison, or slugs - it's about making a decision to kill an animal right there and then, where an absolutely horrid method is used. It is just cruelty for the sake of it, intentionally inflicting pain when it was not necessary considering there were other options.

 

[Joe24]

But using poison, like other people have done, doesnt kill the animal there or then. It does cause pain to them. People who take warfrin(spelling wrong, sorry) which is a lower dose then what is given to rats, can cause them pain by bloody going into the muscles and joints.
You just dont think its bad, because you get it from a box and its designed to kill them.
Im not saying tipping boiling water on rats is a good way to kill them, but its the way that a few went on saying that it was cruel, when you(not you personaly) have done things which you didnt think harmed them, but it actually did and caused them to die slowly. You just didnt think it at the time.

 

[GavinB]

All I'm saying is, pouring boiling water on them is a horrible way to do it. And most people seem to agree. I know it wasn't you that did it, but you did seem to report it with a certain anount of relish.

He's defending it, that's what concerns me. I mean, I agree that we sometimes have to kill pest animals - but torture is just wrong. He's even condescended the point you're making here.

There's a big difference between the necessity of killing, and just flat out intent to be cruel.

 

[Joe24]

He's defending it, that's what concerns me. I mean, I agree that we sometimes have to kill pest animals - but torture is just wrong. He's even condescended the point you're making here.

There's a big difference between the necessity of killing, and just flat out intent to be cruel.

Are you a member of, FoE by any chance?

 

[GavinB]

But using poison, like other people have done, doesnt kill the animal there or then. It does cause pain to them. People who take warfrin(spelling wrong, sorry) which is a lower dose then what is given to rats, can cause them pain by bloody going into the muscles and joints.
You just dont think its bad, because you get it from a box and its designed to kill them.

Firstly, actually... I do think it's bad. Secondly, bleeding to death and dying in your sleep is better than being burned/boiled alive. Thirdly, I don't even use poisons.

And finally, don't change the subject.

but its the way that a few went on saying that it was cruel, when you(not you personaly) have done things which you didnt think harmed them, but it actually did and caused them to die slowly. You just didnt think it at the time.

That's because it is cruel. So is poisoning an animal. They're both cruel. But sometimes with large infestations, you have to use poisons even if you may feel guilty about it because you have no choice. Last resort.

But you can't compare it to a situation where you have an individual animal, and you have choices of how to dispose of it. Hell, you don't even have to kill it if it's in the cage, you could just release it a few miles away.

I've never boiled a rat alive. Whoever doesn't think it's painful at the time are rather stupid (you described that they make a lot of noise when it happened, you should know what that means). Never set down poison either. In fact, I can't think of any action of my own that has caused a tortuous death to an animal capable of feeling pain.

 

[GavinB]

Are you a member of, FoE by any chance?

What's that stand for?

 

[Arch]

What's that stand for?

Friends of the Earth?

 

[Arch]

And for the record, I'm not a member of any organisation like that, I just know what I think is right. And I've also never poisoned a rat, or any animal apart from a few wasps (which are knocked out pretty instantly).

 

[ChrisKH]

We've got really big rats in our garden. But I think they're called foxes. Not sure if foxes eat rats, but if they do, they can stay. Not that I have much choice in the subject.

 

[swee'pea99]

Foxes wouldn't eat rats. Foxes are very fastidious and eat only fine pate on very thin toast, creme brulee and quince preserve. Oh yeah, and live chickens.

 

[ChrisKH]

Well I hope they don't eat guinea pigs (which are sort of ratty in a cute and cuddly sort of way). I've just buried one.

 

[Joe24]

Ahhhh foxes. They need getting rid of. What do they do? Nothing. Thats what they do.
Have a big hunt on them all and get rid of them.

 

[Arch]

Ahhhh foxes. They need getting rid of. What do they do? Nothing. Thats what they do.
Have a big hunt on them all and get rid of them.

No, they eat rabbits, which are also vermin. In fact foxes'll eat most things I gather, although sensibly they are picky about slugs.

Swee'pea is right about the quince preserve though, but they need a silver spoon to do it with.