FNRttC The Fridays Tour 2016

[StuartG]

The one option I didn't vote for was the Netherlands. Precisely because this year was so surprisingly (for me) brilliant. And because tours should be an adventure. Expecting the unexpected. Trying to repeat an immediate success invites failure.

Each year has been different so why not stick with that winning formula? Berlin, Brittany or continuing on from Bordeaux ticks those boxes. A return to the low countries is a must but would be all the better for savouring it for another year? Anyway when it comes to easing logistics - that points to Brittany or is anyone proposing we do Holland every year from now on?

We can do better than playing safe.

 

[redfalo]

Hamburg.
Or other Hanseatic ports, Lubeck, etc. They may have got a bit wrecked in the war, though.

Hoek - Cologne - Dunkirk is 611 km, according to Mrs. G. Oogle's pedestrian expertise...

Woud combine much of cycling in the Netherlands and a bit in France, has easy logistics and includes great destination (that got a also a bit shaken in the war, but thankfully, you guys left the most important thing standing)

 

[StuAff]

Given the choice between hard cycling and easy logistics, or easy cycling and hard logistics, the former definitely wins. But at least some people would prefer both to be easy! It's not 'playing safe'. For example, I have suggested in this thread and in others, riding from Berlin rather than to it would be easier in terms of arranging transport. Easier, but not easy. Flying would definitely involve excess baggage fees, regardless of airline, and packing concerns (regardless of frame material). Trains: Eurostar- £25 fee for an unboxed/non-folding bike per leg. Thalys trains take bikes only in a bag with front wheel removed, ICE trains don't have bike spaces at all. And in my case that would be a fourteen-hour journey door to door. As Martin has pointed out, driving options are equally complicated. Getting to Plymouth or Hook of Holland, OTOH, would be a cakewalk.

 

[redfalo]

. For example, I have suggested in this thread and in others, riding from Berlin rather than to it would be easier in terms of arranging transport. Easier, but not easy. Flying would definitely involve excess baggage fees, regardless of airline, and packing concerns (regardless of frame material). Trains: Eurostar- £25 fee for an unboxed/non-folding bike per leg. Thalys trains take bikes only in a bag with front wheel removed, ICE trains don't have bike spaces at all. And in my case that would be a fourteen-hour journey door to door. As Martin has pointed out, driving options are equally complicated. Getting to Plymouth or Hook of Holland, OTOH, would be a cakewalk.

I thought about riding from Berlin to the Coast as well, but it's a kind of anti-climax choreography-wise. You then lose one of the biggest arguments in favour of the ride: the great destination. Moreover, logistics do not really become that simpler - the only advantage from the point of an organiser would be that you could say: We meet Sunday 8am at Brandenburg gate - how you get there is your business. Flying may be a tad easier as you could box your bike at home, using disposable card board boxes and would not have to worry about that on a weekend in Berlin. But apart from that, the advantage is not really there.

I have thought a lot about Berlin, as some people really kept going on about it (i won't mention names, @Gordon P ) and my conclusion is: there are too many constraints to make it a good Friday's ride. yes, it's a great destination, but maybe just doing away with the cycling part would be a solution (i.e. fly there for an extended weekend?) Or ride in a smaller group of 4 strong riders in say four days, hire a station wagon back to Hoek. Or go 2.5 weeks and ride back. One one week, short-ish days, with 20-30 people and some time for sight seeing in Berlin looks just like a bridge too far (sic!).

The Coast-River-Coast idea (Hoek-Cologne-Dunkirk) looks more doable to me.

Eurostar won't be any option for non-boxed non folders by the way. They have done away with that option, as the new rolling stock lacking bike space will be phased in. And high speed trains from Brussels (or Paris, for that matter) to Cologne never accepted unboxed bikes.

 

[frank9755]

Hoek - Cologne - Dunkirk is 611 km, according to Mrs. G. Oogle's pedestrian expertise...
Woud combine much of cycling in the Netherlands and a bit in France, has easy logistics and includes great destination (that got a also a bit shaken in the war, but thankfully, you guys left the most important thing standing)

Not a bad idea. The default route out, along the Lek / Waal / Rhine is pancake flat, with some interesting places, such as Xanten (Roman stuff + beautiful market town), and Dusseldorf (very pretty along the riverfront). The route after Xanten to Krefeld would need some more of your local knowledge, but that's a detail to solve.

And the return route would be very interesting, taking in lots of Belgium. A little hillier, but it could go via Aachen and Maastricht, then probably avoid Brussels. Could go to the north through Ghent, which is beautiful, and Bruges, and back to the coast. Or south of Brussels could be pleasant too, but hillier, and the towns are not quite so nice.

 

[frank9755]

Eurostar won't be any option for non-boxed non folders by the way. They have done away with that option, as the new rolling stock lacking bike space will be phased in. And high speed trains from Brussels (or Paris, for that matter) to Cologne never accepted unboxed bikes.

So that explains why the website is saying what it does when they do actually take bikes at the moment. Do you know when the new trains are coming?

 

[velovoice]

The one option I didn't vote for was the Netherlands. Precisely because this year was so surprisingly (for me) brilliant. And because tours should be an adventure. Expecting the unexpected. Trying to repeat an immediate success invites failure.

Each year has been different so why not stick with that winning formula? Berlin, Brittany or continuing on from Bordeaux ticks those boxes. A return to the low countries is a must but would be all the better for savouring it for another year? Anyway when it comes to easing logistics - that points to Brittany or is anyone proposing we do Holland every year from now on?

We can do better than playing safe.

I appreciate what you're saying here Stuart. I, on the other hand, am the sort of person who likes to repeat a good experience.

 

[StuAff]

Eurostar won't be any option for non-boxed non folders by the way. They have done away with that option, as the new rolling stock lacking bike space will be phased in. And high speed trains from Brussels (or Paris, for that matter) to Cologne never accepted unboxed bikes.

Where did you find that info? Having trawled through everything I can find about the e320s I couldn't see anything about cycles & other bulky luggage (everything Euro Dispatch handles at the moment, basically). I would have thought it unlikely they want to lose all the business from the skiers, for example...but it would be nice if they actually clarified it!

Edit: I stand corrected. Oh ****!!!!
http://road.cc/content/news/167680-eurostars-new-bike-carrying-policy-gets-complicated

 

[StuartG]

I am pretty clear that I don't want to spend days in cars or minibuses out of what is essentially a cycling holiday; the part of LonJog that was the least enjoyable was the trip back in the coach.

Then we agree!

The fastest, easiest return I have done was my Bordeaux to Med ride. Under 2 hours on a plane. Makes the Hook ferry seem a real pain in comparison. Friends of mine fly with their sooty jobs all the time.

OK it's a culture shock for many of us but so was our first night ride. And it opens up so many new opportunities for the future. And if you book early surprisingly inexpensive.

 

[velovoice]

OK it's a culture shock for many of us but so was our first night ride.

Not comparable. One requires more time and faff NOT cycling, the other opens up new/more ways to cycle.

 

[Flying Dodo]

I'd rather not fly. Partly for environmental reasons, partly due to concerns about how my bike might get treated in transit, but mainly because going to an airport 2-3 hours before a flight, going through security, suffering the shopping experience in terminals, enduring mile long walks, being forced to sit in an uncomfortable seat for a couple of hours, possibly next to a screaming child who kicks your back every 30 seconds, then suffering a cold due to a bug picked up by being in a cramped space with 200 other people, just really doesn't appeal as part of a holiday.

But maybe that's just me being a grumpy old man.


Edit: And I speak as an ex-pilot. Flying just isn't fun anymore.

 

[StuAff]

I'd rather not fly. Partly for environmental reasons, partly due to concerns about how my bike might get treated in transit, but mainly because going to an airport 2-3 hours before a flight, going through security, suffering the shopping experience in terminals, enduring mile long walks, being forced to sit in an uncomfortable seat for a couple of hours, possibly next to a screaming child who kicks your back every 30 seconds, then suffering a cold due to a bug picked up by being in a cramped space with 200 other people, just really doesn't appeal as part of a holiday.

But maybe that's just me being a grumpy old man.


Edit: And I speak as an ex-pilot. Flying just isn't fun anymore.

That's it (says grumpy bit younger man). It's not a two hour flight. It's a two hour (or whatever) flight, with minimum two hour check-in beforehand, expensive and/or complicated trip to the airport (taxi from here to Southampton Airport is £45.....or I can get a taxi to the local station, a snip at about a tenner, then nearly an hour on the train for another tenner...Gatwick or Heathrow even more ££££). You can't ride your bike at any point to make your life easier because you can't take the bike box on the bike. Pay excess baggage for the privilege of being stuck in a noisy overcrowded pressurised tube for two hours with recycled air and £5 sandwiches while you hope and pray some **** hasn't wrecked your bike between you handing it over and the luggage carousel. Then you can pay even more €€€ for a taxi because if you try and reassemble the bike in the terminal some myopic security person might confuse it with a SAM system and have you arrested. Then, and only then, may you actually start having a holiday.

And now, it appears, Eurostar have decided to effectively ban even folding bikes...marvellous. EDIT: The mystery deepens: apparently the rules for carry-on luggage & bikes therein are unaltered- 85 cm or less in all directions and you're OK. Chutney in bag is actually bigger, but I had no issues on my trips this year. So you can have a folder free as carry on, when a bike box in a smaller package wouldn't be allowed even though you'd pay extra anyway.

 

[srw]

I'd rather not fly. Partly for environmental reasons, partly due to concerns about how my bike might get treated in transit, but mainly because going to an airport 2-3 hours before a flight, going through security, suffering the shopping experience in terminals, enduring mile long walks, being forced to sit in an uncomfortable seat for a couple of hours, possibly next to a screaming child who kicks your back every 30 seconds, then suffering a cold due to a bug picked up by being in a cramped space with 200 other people, just really doesn't appeal as part of a holiday.

But maybe that's just me being a grumpy old man.


Edit: And I speak as an ex-pilot. Flying just isn't fun anymore.

Business class isn't bad...

(Declaration: I rarely do it.)

 

[mmmmartin]

I'd rather not fly. ........ Flying just isn't fun anymore.

Agreed. It's the worst bit of any cycling trip. The return flight from Bordeaux after the recce last year was horrid, worse even than the three days of rain, hail and headwind we had at the start of the trip. It took about an hour of cycling after leaving Gatwick to recover. The more astute of you may have spotted that the options for the Tour are notable for the lack of

going to an airport 2-3 hours before a flight, going through security, suffering the shopping experience in terminals, enduring mile long walks, being forced to sit in an uncomfortable seat for a couple of hours, possibly next to a screaming child who kicks your back every 30 seconds, then suffering a cold due to a bug picked up by being in a cramped space with 200 other people

 

[StuAff]

Agreed. It's the worst bit of any cycling trip. The return flight from Bordeaux after the recce last year was horrid, worse even than the three days of rain, hail and headwind we had at the start of the trip. It took about an hour of cycling after leaving Gatwick to recover. The more astute of you may have spotted that the options for the Tour are notable for the lack of

.....is the correct answer.

Didn't much enjoy flying back from Wick to Southampton via Embra either. Though that was more down to the tight-fisted Flybe than anything. On the hop from Wick to Edinburgh on Loganair, got a cup of tea and a Tunnocks wafer. Flybe- nothing without paying extra, gits.