Why do we shoot?

[ayceejay]

I visit a US forum and this question crops up regularly with the usual gun defenders saying that guns don't kill people or why not ban everything that could kill a person and gems like that. In reality there are very few people who want to ban all guns and the concern is more about regulation than taking weapons from "cold dead arms" to quote Charlton Heston. There are vast wild areas of Canada where many people feel the need to protect themselves and there are laws around what are known as 'long guns' here, this puts a perspective on it that allows hunting rifles but not hand guns or automatic weapons. I read and here peoples justification for hunting and then during the season I visit family up north and see pick op trucks with a moose tied to the top and blood all over the cab and I can't help thinking that there is a behaviour here that is not talked about.

 

[vernon]

The gun was invented for one reason only, and serves no other purpose.

Have you not come across, "Riding shotgun'?

 

[HovR]

I have family in the states who live more of a subsistence lifestyle when it comes to meat, rarely buying it from the store, rather shooting it themselves. It certainly has many benefits. The meat is leaner, arguably tastier, and about as natural/organic as you can get. They will only take a clean, ethical shot, always eat what they shoot, and game is managed responsibly by the department for wildlife.

I'm not really sure any meat eater can argue against that without being hypocritical. It certainly seems like a better life for the animal than those being factory farmed.

 

[young Ed]

Shooting feral animals in Australia is definitely OK. So that includes pig, buffalo, rabbit, foxes (not so much as they kill rabbits), cats in national parks (I say this as a cat owner), brumbies (sniff) etc etc. Also using golf clubs to hit cane toads over the fence is perfectly ok.

shall we just leave Aus, that's just a different case where every moving thing must be dead in the out back!

On the subject of comparing banning guns to banning cars, it's not the best comparison.

The car was invented as transport, the fact it can kill is only because it's poorly operated.

The gun was invented for one reason only, and serves no other purpose.

guns were invented for killing yes true, but for pest control a gun is nothing more than a very useful and the best and most humane tool to carry out the job.

To be fair, guns are very dangerous pieces of machinery and should be treated with respect.

However, I understand that people are concerned by the threat to life aspect and would ban all ranged weapons of any kind to save life and limb. Fair enough, but if life saving is their motivation then perhaps they should start by campaigning to ban the motor car, which has taken more lives in the last century than guns.

half the problem i reckon is that many of these people can think of all the good reasons for motor cars and many other potential killers out there but can't think of anything positive or good associated with guns. they are rather single minded and cars or hands or anything else like that are seen as good and useful and they use them them selves, guns and knives etc on the other hand are a big red light and have a little devil next to them and are murderous and never used for any good, because they have never used them for a good reason them selves

IMO a gun or a knife is only as dangerous as the person holding it
Cheers Ed

 

[HovR]

I read and here peoples justification for hunting and then during the season I visit family up north and see pick op trucks with a moose tied to the top and blood all over the cab and I can't help thinking that there is a behaviour here that is not talked about.

Out of interest, what behaviour do you mean? I'm not sure why you'd transport your game on top of the cab rather than in the bed of the truck, but blood is certainly the reality of eating meat. You can make a completely clean and ethical kill, but the animal will still bleed. Cleaning (gutting) an animal is certainly not a clean process (ironically), but it goes on whether you source your meat from the supermarket or the forest.

 

[young Ed]

a couple of bits to do with what i do i would like to add
1) i won't ever pull that trigger on an animal unless i am confident and realistic that the animal will die instantly with that one pull of the trigger, if i have any doubt about it i will let it wait till next time, but don;t worry i will get round to that one too at some point!
2) ALL pheasant's, wood cock's etc etc shot on the organised pheasant shoots where birds have been raised for shooting is eaten. it does not get shot for sport and the fun of it and then slung on the dung heap at the end of the day
Cheers Ed

 

[vernon]

IMO a gun or a knife is only as dangerous as the person holding it
Cheers Ed

Or the person dropping it...

 

[Aperitif]

How did you get the pig on the plane!?

He put lipstick on it and pretended that was his wife.

Pigs fly, you know...mostly by Air Llangollen.

 

[young Ed]

Out of interest, what behaviour do you mean? I'm not sure why you'd transport your game on top of the cab rather than in the bed of the truck, but blood is certainly the reality of eating meat. You can make a completely clean and ethical kill, but the animal will still bleed. Cleaning (gutting) an animal is certainly not a clean process (ironically), but it goes on whether you source your meat from the supermarket or the forest.

if they were in a short wheel base truck such as a land rover defender 90 pick up a whole moose or similar may not fit in the load bed so may need to over hang onto the truck cab? i wouldn't have any problem with doing so my self either, moose needs bringing home, moose needs bringing home how ever it happens

although i'm not sure that's what ayceejay is getting at here?
Cheers Ed

 

[HovR]

if they were in a short wheel base truck such as a land rover defender 90 pick up a whole moose or similar may not fit in the load bed so may need to over hang onto the truck cab?
Cheers Ed

Good point. Thinking about it, my family over in the states often have their quad in the bed of the truck, so there's another reason to transfer your animal on the roof!

 

[Goonerobes]

a couple of bits to do with what i do i would like to add
1) i won't ever pull that trigger on an animal unless i am confident and realistic that the animal will die instantly with that one pull of the trigger, if i have any doubt about it i will let it wait till next time, but don;t worry i will get round to that one too at some point!
2) ALL pheasant's, wood cock's etc etc shot on the organised pheasant shoots where birds have been raised for shooting is eaten. it does not get shot for sport and the fun of it and then slung on the dung heap at the end of the day
Cheers Ed

Is that right? http://www.league.org.uk/our-campaigns/shooting

 

[vernon]

shall we just leave Aus, that's just a different case where every moving thing must be dead in the out back!

guns were invented for killing yes true, but for pest control a gun is nothing more than a very useful and the best and most humane tool to carry out the job.

half the problem i reckon is that many of these people can think of all the good reasons for motor cars and many other potential killers out there but can't think of anything positive or good associated with guns. they are rather single minded and cars or hands or anything else like that are seen as good and useful and they use them them selves, guns and knives etc on the other hand are a big red light and have a little devil next to them and are murderous and never used for any good, because they have never used them for a good reason them selves

IMO a gun or a knife is only as dangerous as the person holding it
Cheers Ed

Ed, you've brought nothing new to the table with your proselytising thread. Justify gun ownership and use to yourself and you'll save the squandering of oodles of electrons trying to budge entrenched views.

 

[ayceejay]

Out of interest, what behaviour do you mean? I'm not sure why you'd transport your game on top of the cab rather than in the bed of the truck, but blood is certainly the reality of eating meat. You can make a completely clean and ethical kill, but the animal will still bleed. Cleaning (gutting) an animal is certainly not a clean process (ironically), but it goes on whether you source your meat from the supermarket or the forest.

But that is exactly what I am talking about.
You kill a moose and put it in your truck to take to an abattoir, maybe wrap it in a plastic sheet to avoid making a mess
OR
You drape its head over the cab and let it bleed all over the cab.

Why would anyone choose the second option which is obviously a display of the kill?

 

[Drago]

On the subject of comparing banning guns to banning cars, it's not the best comparison.

The car was invented as transport, the fact it can kill is only because it's poorly operated.

The gun was invented for one reason only, and serves no other purpose.

No other purpose? Hunting. Pest control. Sport.

The gun was almost certainly invented as as a weapon to use against people. The car was developed as a means of transport. Nevertheless, the cars benign origins are completely irrelevant when one considers the number of people they have killed. The good intentions behind its invention have done nothing to make it any less deadly.

 

[Aperitif]

Round my way, it all gets a bit out of hand...