20mph limits

[thomas]

They did a stretch near us - total resurfacing. Less than 600m, cost over £300,000 (plus a lot of inconvenience). How far is your commute?

Well, from my slightly dodgy calculation about £10800000 ...still be nice to have perfect roads, but there are things which take priority.

 

[mm101]

Speed limits are for a reason and it is not for us to arbitrarily decide which rules we are going to stick to because it suits us.

 

[the reluctant cyclist]

20mph on a bike on a busy dual carriageway in the middle of a city centre seems plenty fast enough to me. Fast enough to be making a good pace and using up a bit of energy but not so fast that you can't stop for idiots stepping out into the road/opening doors/stopping dead in front of you/and so on!

 

[Downward]

Not fussed - Most of the time I can't get past 20mph cause of hills,junctions,traffic etc.

 

[AllThatJazz!]

Aren't those mandatory? They've usually got proper signs to enforce them anyway.

Advisory ones are usually on corners where they are tight and you are recommended to do 20mph or less around them....usually in large square boxes with some type of warning and the recommended limit. You don't have to follow those, but if you don't know the area it is a good idea to follow them.



I'm not for 20mph zones, just because I know when I start driving again they'll really wind me up. Past schools and things, fine, I've no problem, but all over the place is excessive....I'll agree with your first point, but road humps are the worst invention ever! I can't stand them, either in the car or on the bicycle.

If it's in a blue circle - you must not travel at LESS than that speed - sign appears with a red line across at the end of the minimum speed requirement.

I've not seen one in a green circle? If it's on the tarmac within a circle - it's compulsory just as if it appears with a normal speed limit sign with the red trim. An oblong/rectangle sign means advisory.

As for manadatory 20 mph zones? I think too slow for reality 24/7. I think there is perhaps a case for enforcing at very busy times of the day.

As a cyclist? I think courtesy and common sense would mean I should observe them if all other traffic's doing so. I do try to blend in with the normal traffic as best I can... unfortunately - there are drivers out there who just ain't "normal"!

 

[thomas]

If it's in a blue circle - you must not travel at LESS than that speed - sign appears with a red line across at the end of the minimum speed requirement.

I've not seen one in a green circle? If it's on the tarmac within a circle - it's compulsory just as if it appears with a normal speed limit sign with the red trim. An oblong/rectangle sign means advisory.

As for manadatory 20 mph zones? I think too slow for reality 24/7. I think there is perhaps a case for enforcing at very busy times of the day.

As a cyclist? I think courtesy and common sense would mean I should observe them if all other traffic's doing so. I do try to blend in with the normal traffic as best I can... unfortunately - there are drivers out there who just ain't "normal"!

Speed limit in a blue sign? What do they look like? The Oblong ones (assuming we're thinking of the same thing) are usually just warnings not to take a corner too fast and things (well, that's all they use them for around here).

The main disadvantage for a cyclist to be speeding, compared to a car, is that our brakes generally won't stop us as quickly (I would have thought). I'd rather be hit by a bike than a car though.

 

[HJ]

20 in a circle painted on the road in white, 20 in a green circle on a sign with "Twenty's Plenty" written beneath.

I guess my question really is that if a 20 mph limit is put in place to protect vulnerable road users, is it right for a group of vulnerable road users (that's us) to totally disregard it, unless gravity, fatigue or knobbly tyres force us into conformity?

Speed limits are covered by the Road Traffic Act which states they for motor vehicles. As there is no legal requirement for pedal cycles to be fitted with speedometers, it would not be possible to enforce a speed limit for cyclists...

 

[Ben M]

Normal speed limit signs with a black circle instead of a red one are advisory. They have them in my village near the school, the actual speed limit remains 30.

 

[AllThatJazz!]

Speed limit in a blue sign? What do they look like? The Oblong ones (assuming we're thinking of the same thing) are usually just warnings not to take a corner too fast and things (well, that's all they use them for around here).

Hi thomas!


Hell - I hope you will not think I am be being a bit rude - but I hope it's a friendly question? I am wondering if you may be colour blind? Green v blue?

The sign in my book "Know Your Road Signs" if a BLUE circle with the minimum speed limit in white writing. I have not ever seen a green one - and I have googled to see if this green one is being trialled somewhere. I've not found anything so far.. but I might be typing the wrong words to search?????

When you get to the end of the minimum speed limit - you get the same blue circle - but a red diagonal line across it. I


The oblong ones are advisory. Sometimes they are a rectangle. I see these at bends/tunnels in Wales/other "dicey-ish road lay-outs"

The main disadvantage for a cyclist to be speeding, compared to a car, is that our brakes generally won't stop us as quickly (I would have thought). I'd rather be hit by a bike than a car though.

I know .. very different brakiing system and handling I'd rather not be hit by anything / hit anything as I am sure it would be painful.

Of course I cannot guarantee the above comment would never happen. How long's a piece of string here? I just try my best .. try to be considerate and careful, I am only human though - I know what I think is OK - may not be OK by another road user's perception? But I do try to be aware.. and I think that's only natural

 

[AllThatJazz!]

Normal speed limit signs with a black circle instead of a red one are advisory. They have them in my village near the school, the actual speed limit remains 30.

Are these being trialled? "Know Your Road Signs" was updated in 2007 with the Highway Code. It does not list this sign. I have not seen one in Greater Manchester area. The book only shows the rectangle/oblong. I have seen a sign which says if the amber lights are flashing - drive at 20 mph in Stockport and New Mills. But the signs are oblong?

 

[Ben M]

Are these being trialled? "Know Your Road Signs" was updated in 2007 with the Highway Code. It does not list this sign. I have not seen one in Greater Manchester area. The book only shows the rectangle/oblong. I have seen a sign which says if the amber lights are flashing - drive at 20 mph in Stockport and New Mills. But the signs are oblong?

The ones in our village (and I've seen them elsewhere) are exactly like the lawful ones (number with red circle around) except for that these have a black circle.

 

[Stig-OT-Dump]

Green ringed sign shown here:
http://www.northlan.gov.uk/living+h...rt/road+safety/twentys+plenty+initiative.html
These are meant to be used in areas where kids may be playing in the street. Now I reckon that 14 stone of me, plus back pack and bike could still do a fair bit of damage to a 5 year old who runs out from between parked cars 'cos he can't hear my approach. And back to my original question - is that right for me to totally ignore it because speed limits are only applied to motor vehicles, and it isn't mandatory anyway? Or would that make me part of teh selfish "me, me, me" generation.

Now, I do admit that I ride differently on the main trunk roads than the residential back streets, but if the 20 zone is increased to all roads, should I alter the way I ride on all 20mph roads?

 

[Bman]

Speed limits are covered by the Road Traffic Act which states they for motor vehicles. As there is no legal requirement for pedal cycles to be fitted with speedometers, it would not be possible to enforce a speed limit for cyclists...

This is true. But I've wondered, what if you have a bike computer?

Does that mean you have to comply?

 

[jimboalee]

Speed limits are covered by the Road Traffic Act which states they for motor vehicles. As there is no legal requirement for pedal cycles to be fitted with speedometers, it would not be possible to enforce a speed limit for cyclists...

There is a legal requirement for a NEW motor vehicle to be fitted with speedometer. The tolerances are -0.0/+10%.
A NEW car is subject to 'Type approval' by the EC.

At the British MOT test, the speedometer is not checked for accuracy. It just has to work.
Old cars, classics, vintage, historic and veteran cars may have a speedometer which is wildly out. Veteran cars do not need a speedometer if there was not one fitted as Original Equipment.

Speedo or not, the speed limit stands and the vehicle can be prosecuted.

On a pedalcycle, if the rider is blatently 'riding furiously', as Marinyork ( I think ) once said, eg 20 mph in a 10mph limit, the rider can be prosecuted.
10% above the limit is usually treated with a blind eye. 20% above a 20mph limit on a pedal cycle with no speedometer would be a 'finger wagging' from a Policeman.

Strangely, there is no offence which warrants a 'ban' from riding a pedal cycle.

 

[AllThatJazz!]

The ones in our village (and I've seen them elsewhere) are exactly like the lawful ones (number with red circle around) except for that these have a black circle.

But to be a legal sign - it should be listed amongst these from the Highway Code? Surely?

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/Signsandmarkings/index.htm


This web page seems to be less enlightening!

http://www.bris.ac.uk/imagelib/ts.html


I cannot find this black rimmed one on this DfT link on 20 mph legislation/planning etc.. but it makes for interesting reading all the same

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/tal/trafficmanagement/20mphspeedlimitsandzones?page=1#a1000

.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/tal/trafficmanagement/20mphspeedlimitsandzones?page=4#a1002





On reading through the entire pages of the link above - I can only seen red rimmed signs. If the black rimmed one exists - then it must be one under trial?

I found some of the signs have some little pictures like these beneath them?

http://www.simonmason.karoo.net/page361.htm


Have you got a photo of this sign as nothing official seems to list it - so how the hell's a biker/cyclist/driver/pedestrian gonna know whether it is legally enforcing or not?