20mph Speed Limits

[Parrot of Doom]

Then you're contemptible and arrogant.

And you're not very intelligent and rather stupid. See where this is going?

I'll stop assuming that when you stop giving that impression.

I suggest you learn the difference between imply and infer.

You can drive dangerously and still be within the speed limit, I agree. I have never said that driving < speed limit = safe
Going over the speed limit is selfish, antisocial, and almost always dangerous. (I say almost, otherwise you'll come back with some scenario about a deserted motorway - how often does that occur?)

You still haven't adequately responded to my point that increases in speed will always make accidents more likely and more severe.

I disagree, but at least I don't then resort to personal insults to get my point across. Oh and I do not agree with your last point, as it suggests that I drive at inappropriate speeds. I do not.

 

[benb]

Drivers should first and foremost rely on their skills of observation to judge what is a safe speed. They should not refer to the number on a stick and set their speed according to that. How many people do you know who see a NSL sign and immediately speed up? That's the dangerous behaviour here.

Nice strawman. No-one has said that drivers should always drive at the speed limit, but they should always drive below it.
The speed limit is the maximum safe speed. The actual safe speed is very often lower.

I will grant that, in some limited situations, someone can exceed the speed limit without much additional risk (note any increase in speed is by definition more dangerous) but for some odd reason we have decided that we can't rely on people's judgement for that. I wonder why?

 

[benb]

And you're not very intelligent and rather stupid. See where this is going?

...

at least I don't then resort to personal insults to get my point across.

My irony meter just exploded.

 

[Parrot of Doom]

It's not a prejudice or stereotype, I just don't want you driving anywhere near me when you think you have better judgement on speed limits than road planners. Speed limits are almost always set too high anyway due to moton pressure, so when you admit you're often speeding you're admitting to bad judgement on your part.

...and let's not get into silly debates on speed limit legal technicalities. The clear intention for the speed limit on that link you posted is obvious. If you don't know what the speed limit is on the road you're on, then your observation is as poor as your judgement.

Mikey I watch and enjoy your videos on Youtube, but several times I have watched you ignore some of the rules of the road, particularly with regard to entering ASLs, or travelling across pedestrian crossings that aren't clear. Were you to do either of those things on a driving test, you'd fail.

So what makes it acceptable for you to break the rules of the road? And how is it that as an experienced road user, you do not know the speed limit on the road I posted? You're clearly knowledgeable on the subject, so why not?

 

[Parrot of Doom]

My irony meter just exploded.

As did mine. Do you understand that I was pointing out how stupid it is to start insulting someone to try and get your point across? Obviously not.

 

[Parrot of Doom]

Nice strawman. No-one has said that drivers should always drive at the speed limit, but they should always drive below it.
The speed limit is the maximum safe speed. The actual safe speed is very often lower.

I will grant that, in some limited situations, someone can exceed the speed limit without much additional risk (note any increase in speed is by definition more dangerous) but for some odd reason we have decided that we can't rely on people's judgement for that. I wonder why?

I think you'll find that most drivers will look at the number on the stick and attempt to always drive at that speed. Anyone who doesn't is subject to road rage and being overtaken.

We don't rely on people's judgements in general because as a society we recognise that driving standards are inadequate. So we legislate against everyone, ignoring the fact that some motorists are generally safer than others.

 

[Buddfox]

Nice strawman. No-one has said that drivers should always drive at the speed limit, but they should always drive below it.
The speed limit is the maximum safe speed. The actual safe speed is very often lower.

I will grant that, in some limited situations, someone can exceed the speed limit without much additional risk (note any increase in speed is by definition more dangerous) but for some odd reason we have decided that we can't rely on people's judgement for that. I wonder why?

Am I missing something or are you just contradicting yourself in this post? If the speed limit is the maximum safe speed, that would imply you cannot drive safely above it. But then you go on to say that there are limited circumstances when you can exceed the speed limit with only limited additional risk. Assuming that we can agree that the interpretation of safety is a scale and not a binary state of affairs, there must be circumstances when it is safe to be driving above the speed limit.

This is beginning to remind me of the endless RLJ threads. It's against the law, therefore by definition it is dangerous. Clearly this is nonsense.

 

[Parrot of Doom]

Anyhow, I thought this forum might be a little more enlightened. Go on most motoring forums and you'll find a sloth of idiots venting their speens at the injustice of having to navigate around cyclists. I didn't expect to come here and find the same prejudices.

I think some of you need to grow up and realise that just because someone holds a contrary opinion, that doesn't make them a fool, or worthy of verbal abuse. Enjoy your cycling, as I do. Bye.

 

[BentMikey]

Oh and I do not agree with your last point, as it suggests that I drive at inappropriate speeds. I do not.

Every time you exceed the speed limit, you are driving at an inappropriate speed. Your judgement is this: FAIL.

 

[Buddfox]

Every time you exceed the speed limit, you are driving at an inappropriate speed. Your judgement is this: FAIL.

Come on!!! This is so obviously false! The only thing you're doing is driving at an illegal speed!

 

[Buddfox]

You posted on a cycling forum that you routinely exceed speed limits and are thus likely to constitute an increased threat to the lives of cyclists and you didn't expect a teensy weensy bit of a negative reaction? And you're the one with the above average perception. Well bugger me, what are the rest of you like?

This appears to be the interpretation - but the original post made no such specifications that the said speed limit breaches occurred on roads where there would be cyclists. Granted it's probable, but as I said above, everyone seems to be assuming the speed limit breaches only occur on roads where there would also be cyclists.

Either way, it doesn't really justify calling someone "contemptible", does it?

 

[mangaman]

On first point I recently saw a story which suggested that places where they were stopped from driving at a young age generally just pushed the accidents back to a later age (suggesting it came down to experience.)

Second point is absolutely wrong. You're paraphrasing a senior police official who actually said something along the lines of "I've been told that the biggest kill of". We then did research into it on another forum and showed the likelihood of this 'fact' being true to be negligible..

I'm afraid you'll have to work a bit harder to convince me that 17 year old newly qualified drivers aren't more likely to be dangerous than newly qualified 37 year olds. It's not just driving experience, it's maturity. You say you saw a story to the contrary - it would be interesting to see.

As to your second point - I didn't realised fora did "research"! Could you share your findings.

I'm not being awkward - just interested - as I have done a google search on these questions and not found much of any use.

 

[benb]

As did mine. Do you understand that I was pointing out how stupid it is to start insulting someone to try and get your point across? Obviously not.

Funny, I didn't think what I said was insulting, just a statement of what I thought of your driving. Maybe I should have said "Your attitude towards driving is contemptible and arrogant."

 

[mangaman]

You posted on a cycling forum that you routinely exceed speed limits and are thus likely to constitute an increased threat to the lives of cyclists and you didn't expect a teensy weensy bit of a negative reaction? And you're the one with the above average perception. Well bugger me, what are the rest of you like?

To right - one suspects he's an old friend of many years and many incarnations - indeed he remembers MrP from C+ so he could be one of the Swiss Trolls or Jeremy Clarkson etc (for the uninitiated, C+ forum was a war zone between speed apologists mainly from the safespeed site and Spindrift (and his many reincarnations) and MrP).

Quite fun for a while, but it tended to turn into 500 page threads with 3 posters.

BTW was the Parrot flouncing in his/her last post?

I suppose only theclaud or dell would know - that being one of their fields of expertise.

 

[Becs]

[QUOTE 1554918"]
There is no such thing as a safe and experienced driver who ignores posted limits.
[/quote]

Bollocks. Loads of excellent drivers (including off duty coppers) will exceed motorway speed limits but drive completely legally and safely in built up areas. You can be safe and exceed the speed limit in certain situations, but not in the sorts of situations where they will be bringing in 20 limits. It's all about common sense and not behaving like a prat.