50 MPH Speed limit.

[Glover Fan]

For those who like me can't stand people who sit in the middle lane. Try this little trick.

Overtake them. Go into the inside lane. Let them overtake you.

Overtake them again. Go into the inside lane and let them overtake you again.

Continue this process until they get bored and retire to the inside lane. Count how many times you "circle" them and see if you beat my record. 8 times.

Thank you and goodnight.

 

[marinyork]

My first experience of average speed cameras was quite a few years ago at the big roadworks on the A9 near Ballinluig. Travelling up north in the middle of the night (2am ish) there was no other vehicles on the road and I hadn't been hanging about. Anyway a good way through the roadworks the penny dropped what these curious signs actually mean't. So i literally stopped for a couple of minutes before proceeding at a more considered speed.

SPECS can work in very targeted specific locations. One such location was the A616 'Stocksbridge By-pass' which had a horrendous safety record. It seems that it is working very well there. I'd rather they didn't have to install the cameras, but we tried years and years with very little and that didn't work so it was time to try something more radical that caused uproar.

 

[Archie_tect]

Depends how fast they're going GF!

 

[Archie_tect]

SPECS can work in very targeted specific locations. One such location was the A616 'Stocksbridge By-pass' which had a horrendous safety record. It seems that it is working very well there. I'd rather they didn't have to install the cameras, but we tried years and years with very little and that didn't work so it was time to try something more radical that caused uproar.

The 50mph average speed cameras on the A1 improvements north of Dishforth work very effectively- a few people still speed between the cameras and only slow in view of them!

 

[col]

I still dont agree that we need a 70 or more speed limit. I do 40 miles a day motorway driving and do a steady 55 ish, and still see the same cars that pass me at high speed early on in the trip, normally just before I leave the motorway, so dont see the point when a mile down the road an artic holds them up while overtaking another artic at nearly no speed difference. And I also say speed does kill, the same drivers that misjudge at 70 would have more time to correct at 50 with the same distance involved. So other than just being a bad driver, going too fast in a given circumstance is a large part of accidents.

 

[Night Train]

You're behind the times NT, since 1999 driving tests have included a section of at least NSL single carriageway roads and dual carriageways where available. As a consquence ADIs spend a lot of time on these roads with pupils who are approaching test standard.

Not so much behind the times, I know what modern learners go through but fair point.
But many of the problems I see are caused as much by people of my generation hence the bit about learning as a teen and then not learning anymore for the next 60 years of driving.

My formal training was minimal, my learning came from what wasn't officially taught to me and that made me a lifelong learner driver.
I'm not sure that new drivers understand that anymore then older drivers do.

Until it is a continuous process of learning and development we will always have drivers who stop learning and developing after the test is ended. The younger ones just start slightly higher up the knowledge ladder but still a long way down from where it needs to be to be really safe.

 

[col]

Not so much behind the times, I know what modern learners go through but fair point.
But many of the problems I see are caused as much by people of my generation hence the bit about learning as a teen and then not learning anymore for the next 60 years of driving.

My formal training was minimal, my learning came from what wasn't officially taught to me and that made me a lifelong learner driver.
I'm not sure that new drivers understand that anymore then older drivers do.

Until it is a continuous process of learning and development we will always have drivers who stop learning and developing after the test is ended. The younger ones just start slightly higher up the knowledge ladder but still a long way down from where it needs to be to be really safe.

The only way to keep learning is gaining experience on the road. If your carefull and maybe even a bit lucky, those incidents that teach you wont come to impacts or harm.

 

[Night Train]

I still dont agree that we need a 70 or more speed limit. I do 40 miles a day motorway driving and do a steady 55 ish, and still see the same cars that pass me at high speed early on in the trip, normally just before I leave the motorway, so dont see the point when a mile down the road an artic holds them up while overtaking another artic at nearly no speed difference. And I also say speed does kill, the same drivers that misjudge at 70 would have more time to correct at 50 with the same distance involved. So other than just being a bad driver, going too fast in a given circumstance is a large part of accidents.

We will have to partly disagree but lets not argue on this point.
Here's my view.

The speed on the motorway doesn't really make a great deal of difference to safety. The motorways are the safest roads on the country. You can do whatever speed you like but I will drive at the speed most appropriate to the conditions. That means that sometimes I will drive faster then your steadfast 55mph and sometimes I will drive slower. The speed showing on my dash is just to keep me legal, the speed I travel at has to fit the conditions for safety.

Speed doesn't kill.
Andy Green drove at 760mph and no one was killed or injured.
Millions of people travel at many hundreds of miles per hour and yet I've yet to see a trans Atlantic plane run over a child.
I do see news stories of parents running over their own kids on their driveway at less then 5mph.

Speed is a relative thing and needs to be appropriate to the prevailing conditions.
70mph, or even 80mph, is safe on a clear motorway, in good weather with good visibilty on a well maintained vehicle.
5mph is dangerous on a driveway when your kids are playing around the wheels of the car!

A driver who can't judge safety at 70mph should not be driving. Reducing the speed to 50mph wouldn't make the driver any safer as he/she would just drive closer, still not slow down in poor conditions nor adapt their driving anymore then they did at 70mph.
As you say 'Going too fast in a given circumstance is a large part of accidents.' is very true. The key point is 'going too fast for a given circumstance'. 50mph is too fast in some circumstances, as is 30mph and 20mph and 5mph.
The missing ingredient is drivers being able to make that distinction and many can't.
So saying 'I will do 55 as it is safer then 70' is a fallacy.
Driving at a safe speed, up to the maximum legal speed, in the given conditions would be better.

Then there is also the 'making good progress' part to consider.
Being unable to make good progress along with other road users can also be a problem. Driving excessivly slowly can be a danger in some conditions and in those cases perhaps the driver shouldn't be making that journey by car.

I know people who refuse to drive more then 40mph, even on motorways, but they also seem to refuse to drive any slower then 40mph on urban roads.

 

[jonesy]

"The speed on the motorway doesn't really make a great deal of difference to safety"

Again, the experts say otherwise.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/23_02_11_roadsafety.pdf

Note that raising the speed limit to 80 is predicted to increase deaths, even with greatly increased enforcement, whereas reducing it and better enforcement of the existing limit would save lives.

 

[col]

Speed on a motorway does make a difference I think. Iv seen so many drivers overtaking at the speed limit and another on the inside lane indicating to pull out and do the same, but the overtaking car closes in on the vehicle in front to stop someone pushing in front of him it seems, so making the overtake dangerous, as he is within feet of the car in front at 70 mph or in most cases even faster . It all boils down to peoples attitude, and too many have a bad attitude when it comes to driving. Slowing people down on motorways would go a long way to help, no matter how many driveway accidents there are.

 

[on the road]

After seeing the news about that awful accident on the motorway recently, I thought Id put my opinion forward on this as a way to help stopping this sort of accident from happening.
I have thought for a long time that our maximum speed limit should be 50 MPH. I can see no practical reason why this should not be the case. And can think of some reasons as to why it would benefit everyone. The main ones being fuel consumption, engine stress is less so leading to longer lasting and more reliable vehicles, a calmer drive as all drivers are going a similar speed. What do you think?

That wouldn't have made any difference. Seeing that it was foggy there it's likely the speed limit would have been reduced to something like 50 anyway.

The reason most crashes occur on the motorway is because most motorists drive too fast for the conditions. On a clear sunny day 70mph or even 80-90mph is safe, but in fog or heavy rain even 70mph is unsafe, but most still do it.

 

[Glover Fan]

SPECS always seem to be facing the traffic, could they encourage tailgating in a bid to hide the front plate.

I was on the A38 south of lichfield earlier and they had rear facing SPECS cameras. Presumably to combat speeding motorcyclists who don't possess a front numberplate.

 

[trustysteed]

I do 40 miles a day motorway driving and do a steady 55 ish

so it's you.

this is why people drive in the middle lane. so they don't have to keep changing speed and weaving in and out of the inside lane which is imminently more dangerous than driving at a constant 70mph in the middle lane that is easier for other people to judge and anticipate.

well done, you.

 

[Night Train]

Speed on a motorway does make a difference I think. Iv seen so many drivers overtaking at the speed limit and another on the inside lane indicating to pull out and do the same, but the overtaking car closes in on the vehicle in front to stop someone pushing in front of him it seems, so making the overtake dangerous, as he is within feet of the car in front at 70 mph or in most cases even faster . It all boils down to peoples attitude, and too many have a bad attitude when it comes to driving. Slowing people down on motorways would go a long way to help, no matter how many driveway accidents there are.

That happens at all speeds on all roads anyway it is just bad driving.

It is the attitude of the driver more then the speed. I don't, personally, believe that drivers will suddenly become saintly and gifted in their driving if the speed limit changed, in either direction.

I'm not for an increase but I also don't think a decrease will improve driving nor accidents significantly.
Many drivers are still driving at 100+mph where they think they can get away with it and having a limit of 50 won't change that.

I think that in many ways we are in agreement but from differing perspectives due to differing experiences on the road.

Something needs to be changed but just the speed limit won't do it in my opinion. The whole way society sees driving would need to change.

 

[jonesy]

That happens at all speeds on all roads anyway it is just bad driving.

It is the attitude of the driver more then the speed. I don't, personally, believe that drivers will suddenly become saintly and gifted in their driving if the speed limit changed, in either direction.

I'm not for an increase but I also don't think a decrease will improve driving nor accidents significantly.
Many drivers are still driving at 100+mph where they think they can get away with it and having a limit of 50 won't change that.

I think that in many ways we are in agreement but from differing perspectives due to differing experiences on the road.

Something needs to be changed but just the speed limit won't do it in my opinion. The whole way society sees driving would need to change.

Well I've just pointed you to some expert opinion, based on evidence and research, that says it will make a significant difference. So on what basis does what you "think" outweigh that?