A bit of a computery question re: Choosing Desktops...

[barq]

I need a PC but have no intention of gaming.
I know very little though and am confused by the numbers. £500 for 250 mB of hard drive and 2GB of RAM. Oh and it's got a dual core processor.

Does that sound reasonable?

Where is that from? It would be good to see the rest of the specs.

 

[ajevans]

Exactly, except the Linux bit perhaps. ....

Why exactly?

 

[twowheelsgood]

Ah, so the very cheapest isn't the best then!!!! £400 will NOT get me ALL I need either. The moment you want to do high res graphics, decent sound system for music editing, or similar, the costs go up well beyond £400.

I would be DAFT to spend £400 on a PC, just as you would be DAFT to spend £80 on a cycle. I know exactly what and why I buy what I buy. A pretty box is never a reason for me.

My head is screwed on thank you.

However, If you can find a PC that will run high res 30" monitor, do graphics work I require, and a sound system which is as good as a HiFi, and all for £400, please let me know. Remember, I want the best; not just something that might do the job if I am prepared to settle for second best.

But David, Apple Macs come either with the THE SAME intel integrated graphics or THE SAME slightly obselete low-end graphics cards you could fit to a PC (but why would you when you could fit the newer version?)

A Mac has THE SAME integrated sound on the mainboard.

The low-end LCD panel (*cough* 6 bit) in the destops and laptops is THE SAME as you can buy in different clothes for a PC.

The SAME generic hard-drive in some Macs is so obselete and slow you can't even buy it off the shelf anymore.

Like I keep telling you most Macs ARE very low end, slightly out of date PCs made from THE SAME generic components built by THE SAME Chinese or Taiwanese sweatshop. The OS is the ONLY difference except the higher speed firewire support on some machines (like, wow!). You seem to be under the impression your box is somehow of superior quality. This cannot possibly be true given what I've said above. Thankfully Apple have stopped some of their annoying and stupid practices by fitting proprietary connectors and needing BOIS flashes for graphics card, so this is progress of sorts...

You CAN'T really specify a Mac exactly to fit your needs 'cos Apple won't let you or drivers don't exist for OSX. You are more or less stuck with what Apple wish to sell you. The MacPro is the only vaguely interesting machine they offer.

 

[rich p]

Where is that from? It would be good to see the rest of the specs.

It was from Currys - Packard Bell I think. I'll try to find it online if poss.

 

[davidwalton]

Why exactly?

Because I am not sure Linux will run all the software I want.

 

[barq]

The interesting thing about the debate is that 'PC' is an incredibly broad term covering hardware of all qualities and specs, and many operating systems (more than half a dozen versions of Windows, and hundreds of linux distros). I think that makes them very hard to compare meaningfully because one can contrast Macs with a very bad PC/windows experience or a very good and well-priced one. The most interesting comments were about support in the workplace - although I'm at a loss as to why Mac hardware should be more reliable. I mean aren't Macs (the laptops at least) just made by Asus?

I've owned Macs and I'm sure the world is a (slightly) better place for them. But I just won't buy into that Mac mythology and as OS 10.5 seems to be demonstrating at the moment, Apple are not immune to f**k-ups. Myself I've gradually switched from XP SP2 to Kubuntu linux, it is nice to have a great degree of control of your system without being forced into the relentless hardware upgrade spiral that Microsoft forces upon us.

 

[davidwalton]

But David, Apple Macs come either with the THE SAME intel integrated graphics or THE SAME slightly obselete low-end graphics cards you could fit to a PC (but why would you when you could fit the newer version?)

A Mac has THE SAME integrated sound on the mainboard.

The low-end LCD panel (*cough* 6 bit) in the destops and laptops is THE SAME as you can buy in different clothes for a PC.

The SAME generic hard-drive in some Macs is so obselete and slow you can't even buy it off the shelf anymore.

Like I keep telling you most Macs ARE very low end, slightly out of date PCs made from THE SAME generic components built by THE SAME Chinese or Taiwanese sweatshop. The OS is the ONLY difference except the higher speed firewire support on some machines (like, wow!). You seem to be under the impression your box is somehow of superior quality. This cannot possibly be true given what I've said above. Thankfully Apple have stopped some of their annoying and stupid practices by fitting proprietary connectors and needing BOIS flashes for graphics card, so this is progress of sorts...

You CAN'T really specify a Mac exactly to fit your needs 'cos Apple won't let you or drivers don't exist for OSX. You are more or less stuck with what Apple wish to sell you. The MacPro is the only vaguely interesting machine they offer.

I wouldn't buy any other mac. It has to be a MAC Pro. You do get a choice of components, and can specify additions, in the same way you can on Dell site.

I am still waiting for a £400 PC I can do everything I want with, and not have to run MS.

Sorry, but I don't care what you say, in the same way others here appear not to care about my view or years of experience.

It is Horses for courses. You can not change that, so stop trying. If I want to run MS, I will buy a PC. I don't want to, and many others don't want to. MACS ARE a viable option, and ARE equal to the PC.

 

[giant man]

Melvill if you've had a Macbook you know how good a Mac is and my advice is stick with Apple mate, I have had most of the desktop models over the last few years and they are brilliant. A laptop is one thing but for pure processing power you need a desktop.

The dual core machines are indeed brilliant, some issues with the iMacs but IMO stick to one of the towers.

Changing to a PC would be a silly thing indeed. Hope this helps.

 

[domtyler]

I would advise anyone about to spend money on a computer to wait until the new year as they are about to release something so incredibly powerful for so much less money that all current hardware is about to become obsolete.

 

[ajevans]

Because I am not sure Linux will run all the software I want.

Yes but you could say that about any OS and anyway Linux will run far more software than a Mac especially factoring in the likes of Wine.

The only real sticking point for some is that it is difficult to get Photoshop CS2/3 to work on Linux. And that is not that much of a sticking point seeing that the only people who really need to spend £500+ on PS CS are graphics professionals, as there are very competent free alternatives available. For instance as a keen amateur photographer I much prefer the RAW workflow of ufraw to Photoshops.

I used to own a Mac for a couple of years and think they're great at being a no-nonsense PC. However I want a non-nonsense PC that I can fully customise in terms of hardware and the way I interact with it.

 

[barq]

It was from Currys - Packard Bell I think. I'll try to find it online if poss.

I had a quick look and I can't find it (post it up here if you can). But those are fairly reasonable specs to be thinking about. Probably worth comparing with equivalent offerings from Dell and so on.

And if you do buy from Currys make sure you don't get talked into buying the extended warranty. DSG make a big slice of their profits from selling these policies and they work out very expensive, especially for goods with a rapidly depreciating value.

 

[davidwalton]

Yes but you could say that about any OS and anyway Linux will run far more software than a Mac especially factoring in the likes of Wine.

The only real sticking point for some is that it is difficult to get Photoshop CS2/3 to work on Linux. And that is not that much of a sticking point seeing that the only people who really need to spend £500+ on PS CS are graphics professionals, as there are very competent free alternatives available. For instance as a keen amateur photographer I much prefer the RAW workflow of ufraw to Photoshops.

I used to own a Mac for a couple of years and think they're great at being a no-nonsense PC. However I want a non-nonsense PC that I can fully customise in terms of hardware and the way I interact with it.

I am one of those that do use adobe software, and what was MacroMedia software as well, inc Photoshop. Not just for professionals. At least when I upgrade the software, it will be half the cost now it is just one company. Initial cost of software for both sets was over £1500, so I am not prepared to consider an operating system where I can no longer use part or all of it effectively.

I have only used Linux on web servers. However, I did find it a little worrying, especially given the large number of updates that were required, and almost daily. More than windows generally. I had a new Dell server, fairly new to the market, and it took a little hunting to get the drivers required for it.

I am really not bothered about hardware, as long as it does do what is required. I don't want to run Windows, and Linux is not an option, so I am left with OSX. That for me is no issue. Apple do make machines that are generally very reliable, as fast or faster than PC windows with similar components, and requires less support and maintenance.

My MacPro G4 dual processor with OSX 10.4 runs fast enough for me with this version of OSX and the versions of software I have. The only reason I would change the Mac is if it breaks down, or software upgrades tempt me. Not had any problems with it yet though. In the same time, I have had to replace the dell PC I had. Current Dell PC is also not that far away from needing replacing. This is the same story I found working in IT support for a number of companies. On the whole, the MAC's outlived the PC's, and also required far less support.

Summing up my experience, I would have to say that I am MORE likely to get value for money with a decent Mac than I am buying a PC, over time.

Yes, there are PC's that go on forever, and I have seen multiuser CPM machines with 8" floppies running not that long ago, and trying to remember all the PiP commands to update some software on it.

 

[LordoftheTeapot]

I would advise anyone about to spend money on a computer to wait until the new year as they are about to release something so incredibly powerful for so much less money that all current hardware is about to become obsolete.

Please tell us (me) more details. I was thinking of getting a new PC. This lap-top is a couple of years old now and the desk-top is around 5/6 years old.

 

[ajevans]

I am one of those that do use adobe software, and what was MacroMedia software as well, inc Photoshop. Not just for professionals. At least when I upgrade the software, it will be half the cost now it is just one company. Initial cost of software for both sets was over £1500, so I am not prepared to consider an operating system where I can no longer use part or all of it effectively.

I have only used Linux on web servers. However, I did find it a little worrying, especially given the large number of updates that were required, and almost daily. More than windows generally. I had a new Dell server, fairly new to the market, and it took a little hunting to get the drivers required for it.

.....

[1] So Linux isn't suitable for you due to your reliance on one software suite. You can't then use this as an argument to say that it is not an option for other people.

[2] You get a lot of updates as Linux package managers don't just update the OS itself but every piece of software on the system. With Windows it updates only the OS. You have to manually update each application you use. Furthermore certain Linux distrubutions not only update the software and OS but also upgrade it, for instance my distribution will evolve overtime into new releases so no waiting for new releases and no faffing about with install disks once new releases arrive. As soon as something new has been invented and tested thoroughly it'll be installed with minimal fuss.

In summary you can't just dismiss it as an option especially when your knowledge of it is limited.

 

[domtyler]

Please tell us (me) more details. I was thinking of getting a new PC. This lap-top is a couple of years old now and the desk-top is around 5/6 years old.

Sorry I'm not at liberty to say at the moment, but it's coming. Soon. You just need to be patient for a little longer.