A cyclist with a death wish

[BrynCP]

Perhaps cycle lanes should terminate twenty yards before a major junction.

Then however will I get into the Advanced Stop Zone

Being serious though, I have learned in my short time on the roads, from here and experience, stay behind long or tall vehicles, it's not worth the extra few metres. In fact, I regularly stay behind cars if I know the lights could be about to change. I don't gamble with money so why with my bike life.

 

[benb]

Even with a cycle lane, you have to have some common sense and not go up the inside of lorries.
You can't just say "the cycle lane was there, so I had to use it". If anyone chooses this route and ends up in trouble, it's no one else's fault but their own.

I think that's unfair. We all know not to go up the inside of vehicles at junctions, but can you expect everyone to know that? If the cycle lane is there, it is implying that it is safe to use, and people without that knowledge will naturally use them.

 

[martint235]

Perhaps cycle lanes should terminate twenty yards before a major junction.

Could I suggest doing away with the cycle lane and having a lane called lane. It may have a lane next to it called the right hand lane, this is for faster vehicles wishing to overtake vehicles in the lane. I think it would do away with all this confusion about cycle lanes and ASLs

Once again, we should know to evaluate when to go up the inside of a vehicle and when not to.

Or the outside of vehicles. I think filtering on either side of something with a trailer should only be done if you know where the next junction is and what the driver is planning on doing between now and just after it.

 

[briantrumpet]

Once again, we should know to evaluate when to go up the inside of a vehicle and when not to.

Yes ... but ....

Risk assessments are de rigueur because in any group of people some of them won't be as aware of the risks as the person doing the assessment (at least in theory) - so if you're doing one that involves children, it'll be different from one that is just for adults: you have to assume a lower level of awareness from the children. Cyclists, en masse, seem to be the same: even if you would like all of them to be sensible, aware people, a significant proportion won't be, and policy and infrastructure needs to reflect that. One can only assume that the dangers of filtering up the inside of vehicles isn't obvious to everyone, especially when there seems to be encouragement for them to do so.

 

[briantrumpet]

I am assuming that we are aiming for functioning adults not partially functioning.

But the evidence suggests the latter is the case. Most of us can be a twerp from time to time, and just need a little help to stay alive.

 

[PK99]

I think that's unfair. We all know not to go up the inside of vehicles at junctions, but can you expect everyone to know that? If the cycle lane is there, it is implying that it is safe to use, and people without that knowledge will naturally use them.

No, people are (incorrectly) inferring it is safe to use

 

[briantrumpet]

Some people are happy to have all cyclists trained to the equivalent of a toddler knowing not to touch the kettle but not knowing why. Others would prefer that we aim for people who have a working understanding of the kettle and know how to handle it.

Indeed - I wouldn't argue with that. But whilst we are still dealing with toddlers, perhaps we should consider whether we could modify the environment to discourage them from killing themselves in the meantime.

My simile with children is not made entirely flippantly, as I do think that, as a group, cyclists have a tendency to behave like children in groups, and have a similar range of abilities to make sensible decisions. With risk assessments, you have to consider the children who will be silly or careless - it is part of children's nature, and you have to be aware of it, and take sensible steps to reduce the risks, especially where there are known risks (e.g. electricty or water) with serious consequences. Ditto cyclists.

 

[Roadrider48]

I think that's unfair. We all know not to go up the inside of vehicles at junctions, but can you expect everyone to know that? If the cycle lane is there, it is implying that it is safe to use, and people without that knowledge will naturally use them.

I agree with you ben, up to a point. But everyone has to take a certain amount of responsibility for their own safety.
But I do agree with you that there will be people who will happily carry on along the cycle lane irrespective of potential dangers. It's a good point that you make.

 

[Cyclopathic]

At some lights near my home I stopped at the rear of a long flat bed lorry. I knew the company and although he wasn't indicating it was a pound to a penny he was about to make a left turn. I would wait at the rear anyway just in case. Along comes another guy on a bike nudges past me to get to the inside of the lorry.
I said: 'He will probably be turning left'
His reply: 'f*** off'

So Mr Nobhead cyclist gets almost to the front of the lorry, lights change, lorry moves off and..........swings left.
Fortunately there was plenty of room for the rider to jump off and get onto the path.

Probably the same bloke on a day out from Manchester.

Seeing as it was a while ago I'm surprised he is still in one piece.

Time to just point and laugh.

 

[briantrumpet]

But we are not dealing with toddlers. We are dealing with people who give every other appearance of being functioning adults in other areas, so it should be perfectly possible to bring them up to speed relatively easily.

As I suggested earlier, the evidence would suggest otherwise. If it were that easy, it would have been done by now. That's not being defeatist - it's the correct aim - but even if it were easy, people are continuing to put themselves in lethal positions, day in, day out, even after the spate of deaths and associated headlines over the past few weeks. Even 'functioning adults' (whatever that means) can make poor choices, in the wrong circumstances. Fortunately, most of the time, we get away without dying or being seriously injured as a result. I certainly know I've made some poor choices in my time, and I'd class myself as a 'functioning adult' (mostly).

Of course, ideally, you do both - better awareness and training, and better designed infrastructure. But leaving out the infrastructure question seems to be leaving out an important part of the solution: you need to design-in the risk assessment.

 

[paul04]

was there by any chance a cycle lane up the left side as this is often the scenario ? I hate them. Poor design basically inviting cyclists into the danger zone and encouraging them to do it at all lights

No cycle lane, and I know that road well as I cycle down it myself.
And you are correct about some cycle lanes being Poorly designed, many cycle lanes end in the left filtering lane when all you want to do is go straight on.

 

[buggi]

Once again, we should know to evaluate when to go up the inside of a vehicle and when not to.

"should" yes, but some have no experience and maybe don't drive either and some idiot at the council paints them a nice inviting cycle lane to use.

 

[buggi]

But we are not dealing with toddlers. We are dealing with people who give every other appearance of being functioning adults in other areas, so it should be perfectly possible to bring them up to speed relatively easily.

isn't that half the problem? That we are not reaching them to bring them up to speed? I was at a cycle training session today with a "Boris biker". It was the first time he's heard of primary position. In "cycle experience years" he was a toddler. He's more aware now but would be none the wiser if we hadn't arranged the training session

 

[buggi]

And they should be able to use it safely.

i agree but it doesn't work like that unfortunately bcoz there are knobhead drivers.

 

[wait4me]

This is what I don't understand. I can see how you might get that response if your statement had included something like 'don't go there you nobber' or other similar words - but to just say f**k off to someone giving a piece of advice...

Colly is from Leeds