A cyclists life is cheap again

[mjr]

I know that bit of road and i use it all the time..

It's this collision, isn't it? http://www.cyclestreets.net/collisions/reports/2014350218614/

dark with no lighting..and a very sharp bend with a deep drainage ditch either side,its quite narrow too.

Street View is on the above link. It's a typical fen road. Yes, locals SHOULD know to take care but clearly that chap from Coates didn't.

just cutting that corner as most do every day

And that's the problem. Cutting corners costs lives and there seems little interest in policing against it.

the road is one that will continue to cause accidenrts..its a bad un..

Not really. It's a typical fen C road. The motorist didn't take the corner too fast by misjudging it and overrun onto the outside - they took the corner too fast by cutting it and killing the road user coming the other way. Lower the limit on rural C/U roads to 40mph to discourage ratrunners and throw the book at anyone who speeds or cuts lined corners on them IMO.

All well and good but what we want is a significant effect on all the other drivers.

I suggest more traffic policing is needed to do that, not longer sentencing. I suspect motorists in large swathes of the country at the moment just think there's almost no chance of being pulled over for "minor" infractions like cutting corners.

There would still be a minor problem for traffic policing in the fens, though...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9Z33iHKvqo

 

[Drago]

Drivers from everywhere should take care always on every bit of road, not just local ones they know about.

 

[mjr]

Drivers from everywhere should take care always on every bit of road, not just local ones they know about.

Well yes, but people who live near the fens should also have learnt from all the stories in the local press about people driving too fast on these roads who end up in the drains and some drown, or the red signs helpfully telling us how many have died on innocuous-looking straight-looking roads, or the roadside shrines you'll pass if you drive far on fen roads. An unfamiliar motorist could be surprised that these roads aren't safe at 60mph but locals really ought to have realised.

 

[classic33]

Familiarity or otherwise of a stretch of road, I live 500 miles from a few that I use whilst over there. But at times appear seem to know them better than those who use them every day.

What we need to remember is that we seldom get more than one chance at life, the same as everyone else. Lets not cut short that chance.

Familiarity or otherwise of a stretch of road, shouldn't enter the argument. I live 500 miles from a few that I use whilst over there, on holiday. But at times, appear/seem to know them better than those who use them every day.

Post has text missing, added above, with the original left intact.

 

[Tin Pot]

I honestly think I'd go and kill the guy myself if he'd killed my son.

Society did not protect this family, and it has not served justice. This is the most fundamental bond between the individual and the state, and the state has broken it, time and time again.

How can we stand by with people being so laissez faire with human life? Kill someone, entirely through your own fault, if it's with a car - don't worry lad, we'll get you out as soon as we can.

Don't give me all this about terrorism and refugees when we are happily killing our own citizens daily.

A thousand years ago we realised letting everyone wander about with swords wasn't a great idea, how long until we realise cars are weapons?

 

[Hip Priest]

I'm sick of hearing people say of killer drivers that they 'never set out to hurt anyone' or that 'there are no winners in a case like this'. If I die on the roads as a result of a careless or dangerous driver, then I'd want them to receive the maximum available sentence.

 

[Drago]

A thousand years ago we realised letting everyone wander about with swords wasn't a great idea, how long until we realise cars are weapons?

The motor car has killed more people than the firearm, yet because the car is so beneficial it's dangers are overlooked by society at large I favour of its convenience.

Get arrested for, say, a minor domestic assault and the Dibble will revoke your shotgun licence for good, regardless of whether you're convicted. Hurt someone to a similar degree in a car and you'd be allowed to carry on with maybe a few points and a penalty at worst. Society's attitude to kinetic weapons is unbelievable.

 

[400bhp]

I'm sick of hearing people say of killer drivers that they 'never set out to hurt anyone' or that 'there are no winners in a case like this'. If I die on the roads as a result of a careless or dangerous driver, then I'd want them to receive the maximum available sentence.

To an extent I understand your point and I suspect (at least implicitly) this is the sentence the judge starts with and then works down for mitigating factors/precedent..

The issue we (society) has is that driving a car is normalised. The optionality of car ownership and driving has disappeared in the UK. What I mean by that it's no different than drinking a cup of tea or going shopping. Such that it it is seen as an unfortunate side effect when something bad happens as a result of driving.

The only way I can see this changing is if there is a material increase in road deaths of any kind and/or EU legislation enforcing a minimum KSI % (assuming we are still in the EU of course) which will then cause the government to look at ways of reducing road deaths. This may lead to tougher penalties/changes in law/changes in the social mindset as a result of education and awareness.

 

[mustang1]

Is that corner an accident waiting to happen? If so, instead of concentrating on the length of jail service, some real money should be put into redesigning said junction.

Then again, the issue of "life is cheap" comes to the fore; no money will be spent on redesign unless a significant number of people died.

 

[newfhouse]

You would have to redesign the entire area of the fens then. The roads run along drainage lines, like they do in the Netherlands.

And we know how much carnage there is on the roads there. Oh, wait...

 

[si_c]

Stop blaming the road. The road isn't the issue.

Granted the road is not at fault in this instance, and the individual bears the responsibility of ensuring they don't endanger somebody else. However, separate from this it is possible to acknowledge that a redesign of the road can reduce the propensity for this to happen.

 

[si_c]

The propensity for this sort of thing to happen is nothing to do with road design or road layout - that's just an excuse trotted out to try and mitigate the culpability of drivers. It is entirely to do with the motorist.

I don't disagree that the motorist is entirely at fault. My point is that knowing that drivers are sh*t, can we not design the roads to mitigate some of that crap behaviour. Making a road safer does not in anyway reduce the culpability of the driver should they strike another road user.

 

[Tin Pot]

I don't disagree that the motorist is entirely at fault. My point is that knowing that drivers are sh*t, can we not design the roads to mitigate some of that crap behaviour. Making a road safer does not in anyway reduce the culpability of the driver should they strike another road user.

Quite possibly. We could also take their cars away, as we did with swords.

 

[Markymark]

There are no dangerous roads in this country. Just drivers who don't drive according to the conditions.

Men (not always but usually) tend to drive at the limit of their ability. The 'safer' you make then environment the more risks that will be taken.

The best recourse is punishment. It is sorely lacking due to the same people committing the crime as those sitting in judgement.

 

[Origamist]

I don't disagree that the motorist is entirely at fault. My point is that knowing that drivers are sh*t, can we not design the roads to mitigate some of that crap behaviour. Making a road safer does not in anyway reduce the culpability of the driver should they strike another road user.

Vehicle Activated Signs (VAS) or Speed Indicator Devices can be deployed, as can lower speed limits (there’s also rumble strips, adjusting centre lane markings, speed limit roundels etc), but even with these measures, if people want to roll the dice when they are in a hurry and assume there is no one coming in the opposite direction around a corner - no amount of road danger reduction interventions are going to work.

In Cheshire, a small minority of drivers have developed the ability to see around tight bends, either that or they just don't give a XXXX if they kill or seriously injure other road users.

The last study I saw, found that only 50% of drivers knew what the National Speed Limit sign signified...