A few of questions on road use?

[Brittany]

So I've been cycling a while now.. I just need to get a couple of things ironed out in terms of how I should react in certain circumstances.

First off, let's say I come down a road that opens up with a left and right turn at the end. (I think this is called a T-Junction..) This is often filled with traffic, most of them turning right, some not indicating, because that'd be far too responsible. Naturally, I don't want to sit in traffic, so I overtake on the left hand side, as close to the pavement as possible. When I want to come out.. do I just stick my arm out right and push myself to the front of the queue, or is there somewhere I've got to wait?

Second is, I've heard conflicting thoughts on this from different friends. If I'm riding on a pavement cycling path, up with the pedestrians, not the road users, should I be cycling on the right, or the left?

And finally, I'm on a cycling path on road, I want to make a turn to the right. I put my right arm out, and I wait for a golden hearted person to understand my emotional battle in having to make the turn. I often simply sit there whilst car after car speeding past from behind me, sometimes using their horn to indicate that they want my arm out of their way a bit more. What is the right thing to do in this situation? How on Earth do I make this turn? Why does car after car overtake me to the right of me?

All these issues are of my daily commute. It's relatively frustrating to deal with, to say the least.

 

[cyberknight]

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...#v=onepage&q=cyclecraft turning right&f=false
I will not get into filtering as its something i never need to do with the roads and times i ride and the only time i am in traffic is on a flat section in a 30 zone so i can keep up assuming i am in the draft zone.
To turn right you need to do a shoulder check to get eye contact with the driver behind, clearly indicate and take the primary road position in the centre of your lane so they cannot undertake or overtake without using the other lane .Do this early enough so you can get across in time but not to early .
IMHO unless the path is a cyclepath you should not be riding on it anyway .
The only junction i have that has regular traffic is this, to turn right i indicate a right turn level with the pub, take primary and indicate again at the roundabout to turn right,,,
http://goo.gl/maps/BbwQa

 

[Melonfish]

Okay,
first off Never filter on the left this is a bad idea, you're in the drivers blind spot and if anyone suddenly wants to move left or the passenger wants to get out of the car:

Always overtake a car properly i.e. on the right and if you have to wait in traffic wait its safer then darting around cars that can't see you.

Re: shared use paths. tough one as some councils paint the cycle on the left and some on the right, afaik it doesn't actually matter unless it clearly is shown as segregated so just ride on the side thats best, keep your speed low in case of ped's and stay wary.

k the cycle path on road. if you're turning right at a junction ignore the cycle path alltogether, what you want to do is position yourself like a car. as you come up to the junction, shoulder check and indicate right, when clear move out to primary position (occupy the lane) cars will get irate at you doing this because they have no concept that you are a road user like them, tough they can wait. when its safe to make your turn do so. hold your ground and don't let cars push you around.
you'll NEVER make a right hand turn from the far left edge of a road, nobody is going to let you out and you'll have to technically negotiate two lanes of moving traffic instead of one.
happy riding!
Pete

 

[Brittany]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I think half my issue is purely that in the past, I have drivers literally yell at me. Trailing me, and yelling at me about how wrong I am for following the highway code. It's my frustration that it is very difficult to deal with these circumstances often.

 

[summerdays]

I have different right turns onto a main road at traffic lights and do them in different ways. The first one nearly all traffic is going right (they would take a different road if going left normally), and so there is a gap on the left which I take (pedestrians don't get out there either). I go all the way to the junction and then wait to the left of the first car that I'm sure is turning right and turn at the same time.

The other junction that comes to mind again traffic lights, I filter up the right hand side normally as I have a better view and it has a Advanced Stop Box which I then go into - I know the timing of the lights I know when they are going to change.

Each junction and almost each time has to be treated as different. You need to get used to reading the road and traffic.

Are there two separate lanes marked or just the junction mouth is wide - as this may change how you would deal with this junction. Could you link to a googlemaps image of the junction? If you are filtering towards the front then normally it would be better to try and slot into the traffic a couple of cars before the junction. You do this by stopping behind the second card and then making eye contact with the driver of the third car who will normally allow you to join the main flow of traffic.

Cycling on the pavement - you don't say whether on a cycle path with shared use or just on a normal pavement. If the former there may be some lines marked out indicating where they expect cyclists to ride, however pedestrians will flow everywhere and have the right to do so. If cycling on just a normal pavement because you don't feel safe on the road then there are no rules as to where you are expected to cycle.

As for a car overtaking from behind you to turn right, that sounds as though you are too far over to the right in the first place giving them the space to undertake you (though some junctions are sufficiently wide you can't stop this occurring just make it more difficult). However it also sounds as though you aren't pulling out of the side road very quickly if multiple cars are able to do this. What sort of area are you cycling in town/city/backstreets? I remember having lots of problems when I first started which were partially down to my inexperience but the book Cyclecraft that Cybernight linked to is very good and well worth buying, and perhaps getting some cycle training - some councils offer subsidised training.

 

[trampyjoe]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I think half my issue is purely that in the past, I have drivers literally yell at me. Trailing me, and yelling at me about how wrong I am for following the highway code. It's my frustration that it is very difficult to deal with these circumstances often.

Yeah, you get that. Best to just ignore them and carry on doing what you feel is safest (and within the law).

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Well, this morning I wanted to turn right across 3 lanes of traffic. As I woke up with a sore neck and anyway do not trust shoulder check/indicating 100% on that road, I just waited for a gap in traffic at the nearest bus stop on the left side of the road, then rode the 3 lines across to the junction.
All motorists happy, no beeping

 

[downfader]

Brittany, I see you're in Southampton.

The council has some good info on its website http://www.southampton.gov.uk/s-environment/roadsafety/cyclingadvice/default.aspx They also do training for not very much money (Bikeability) http://www.southampton.gov.uk/s-environment/roadsafety/cyclingadvice/cycletraining.aspx

Other advice can be had from Southampton Cycling Campaign: http://www.southamptoncyclingcampaign.org.uk/ Membership is very cheap, they too can put you in touch with a qualified instructor. Consider joining British Cycling, too, only about £30 a year and lots of benefits.

Lastly - write in to the Daily Echo's letters page with an outline of your cycling concerns. This will help promote the need for better infrastructure, especially for beginners like yourself.

 

[jonny jeez]

Hi Brittany and welcome.

lucky old you!! because the members of cyclechat have prepared a special guide just for you...(.well ok, it's our general guide but if you promise not to tell... I've just put it together because I heard you were coming....honest) .

Inside you'll find specific advice on the two questions you raise (Ie turning right and the filtering thing)

Hope it helps to provide you with confidence that you "know what you are doing" and don't get any more of those drivers yelling and beeping at you.

If you dont have time to read the lot then I can summarise that to turn right you need to look behind, very early, find a gap as you move, signal clearly and filter out. Its never (almost) too early to move out to the right in anticipation of a turn, don't force yourself to move late by leaving it too long.

As far as filtering, try to avoid filtering on the left. Don't feel inclined to be in the gutter or even follow the cyclepath (they are dangerous for this very reason), its as much your road as those drivers, so try to get used to moving about the lane.

same goes for pinch points and ASL's (it'll make more sense after you've read the guide)

Hope the guide helps, link is below, you can find it in the commuting section of this forum (under the "essential guide...." thread) if you loose the link again in the future.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12757785/guide.pdf

 

[Davidc]

Hello Brittany

Have a look for some training, and also get a copy of Cyclecraft and read through it. In the meantime keep out of the gutter and avoid filtering on the left. Ride defensively, but be assertive.

The traffic rule is keep to the left, and it applies everywhere in the UK. That includes cycle paths.

We all get morons in cars who think they own the road. All you can do is ignore them and try to resist the temptation to be rude to them. Ice cold dirty looks aimed their way are safer and usually effective.

 

[HLaB]

The traffic rule is keep to the left, and it applies everywhere in the UK. That includes cycle paths.

Brittany, I go with that theory, it works most of the time but just remember that pedestrians and other cyclist are unconfined and might not know this, so err on the side of caution.

 

[boydj]

Brittany, you really need to read Cyclecraft.

On shared use paths - you'll need to take it as it comes. With cyclists coming the other way, stick to the left. With pedestrians you can go either side, depending on where they are. Take it slowly, let them know if you are coming up behind them - politely - and expect the unexpected. If the path is busy, you'll be faster on the road.

If there's somewhere local where you could get some training, that would be good. Or finding a more experienced cyclist to take you out and give you some coaching would help.

Keep at it though. There's no shame in stopping on the left until the road is clear for you to get across to make a right turn. It's a difficult manoeuvre even for experienced cyclists when the road is busy.

 

[downfader]

Hello Brittany

Have a look for some training, and also get a copy of Cyclecraft and read through it. In the meantime keep out of the gutter and avoid filtering on the left. Ride defensively, but be assertive.

The traffic rule is keep to the left, and it applies everywhere in the UK. That includes cycle paths.

We all get morons in cars who think they own the road. All you can do is ignore them and try to resist the temptation to be rude to them. Ice cold dirty looks aimed their way are safer and usually effective.

Although to clarify it means "left of centre" or the centre line... All too often misinterpreted by non-cyclists as "ride in the gutter".