A rant about MK cyclists (and peds, for that matter)

[Dogtrousers]

I think I've seen pictures of the what became Milton Keynes with monorails (possibly on the telly - probaby on BBC4 on one of those clever-clever programs with long words).

I thought I'd look for this picture online. I did find it, but I got a bit sidetracked when I found A Transport Vision and Strategy for Milton Keynes appendix F.

Predominant among the anticipated changes that the Plan for Milton Keynes addressed was the need to accommodate ‘saturation’ levels of car use without road congestion. So, in the 1970 Plan for Milton Keynes, consultants Llewelyn-Davies designed a town around the operational requirements of the private car, in order that people could be free to use the car as much as they chose. To facilitate maximum expected use of cars for peak hour commuting, employment and all other major traffic generating land uses were to be highly dispersed. Traffic was to be spread as evenly as possible across a non-directional grid of dual carriageway roads spaced one kilometre apart. Added to this, residential densities would need to be very low with an average of 27 persons per hectare, around half that of a normal UK city. In summary, in a Radio 4 interview, Llewelyn-Davies referred to Milton Keynes as a ‘modified Los Angeles system’ - the design is basically a tidied up southern Californian urban sprawl. The end result was that every element was designed to maximise the opportunities to drive cars for all conceivable purposes.
​

As Wild Willy Barrett sang: "How can you ever find your way, when the roads don't go nowhere? And there ain't nowhere much to go ... in Milton Keynes."

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

Maybe it is just me, but having never been there before other than through it on the train, I want to go and see it purely out of curiosity now!

 

[toffee]

I did ask, on page 1, if MK was a hot-spot of cyclist-cyclist or cyclist-pedestrian collisions, but no one responded. I'm assuming that's because, despite all the fuss and fear, people don't collide all that much - in the same way as pedestrians on crowded pavements manage to avoid each other most of the time.

Correct

Derek

 

[mjr]

Maybe it is just me, but having never been there before other than through it on the train, I want to go and see it purely out of curiosity now!

Go for it. You've missed one of the nicest spaces because the vandals built shops over City Square years ago, but there are still a few bits of architectural madness in the city centre, including the station square, the city church and the garden inside the grid square behind it, the backless library, the Point and Campbell Park... then it's not too much further on from Campbell Park to the cafe at Willen Lake and the peace pagoda to the north.

Or head through the gap to the left of the station as you look at its front, cross a bridge over the A5D, then turn left to cycle past the teardrop lakes and to the Bowl where they race bikes sometimes. Or it's easier to reach the concrete cows by bike than by car (although still not simple) but the originals are in the nearby MK Museum now. Then if you go that far north, the Newport Nobby mentioned earlier is nearby and nearly connects the pre-MK towns of Wolverton and Newport.

It's all cycleable but quality varies wildly. The redway direction signs are generally poor and often spun or stolen, so take a GPS with a good cycling map, but don't expect it to make sane routing decisions. If you're using the grid redways, they're mostly near enough to see the road signs.

 

[mjr]

I did ask, on page 1, if MK was a hot-spot of cyclist-cyclist or cyclist-pedestrian collisions, but no one responded. I'm assuming that's because, despite all the fuss and fear, people don't collide all that much - in the same way as pedestrians on crowded pavements manage to avoid each other most of the time.

Searching stats19 reports at cyclestreets finds no cyclist-pedestrian collisions and 497 involving cyclists, of which 6 were bike-only collisions. 2 had 2 casualties but both were motorists having knocked down a bike carrying two children: 200543S141045 and 200543N314115. I looked at a dozen or so of the 497 but all I saw were motorist-cyclist collisions, usually at junctions.

Redway-sceptic John Franklin claimed that hospital stats (which tend to show far more injuries than stats19 reports) showed two pedestrians a month being injured on redways, but not whether they were cyclist-pedestrian collisions. They could as easily be trips and falls, of course.

 

[dellzeqq]

I did ask, on page 1, if MK was a hot-spot of cyclist-cyclist or cyclist-pedestrian collisions, but no one responded. I'm assuming that's because, despite all the fuss and fear, people don't collide all that much - in the same way as pedestrians on crowded pavements manage to avoid each other most of the time.

I'd be amazed if there were cyclist/pedestrian collisions. There are so few of either.

The original redways were reputed to be dangerous for women - and, if you had to design a cycle path that was dangerous for women, or anybody else, that would be it. I used to go up to Phil Corley's in the mid eighties, and, by that time they were hardly used.

 

[mjr]

[QUOTE 4505078, member: 259"]I once went to an interview at Milton Keynes by train and got totally lost trying to get to the building by foot. I could see the building but it took ages to work out how to get there so I arrived pretty late and sweating profusely. I didn't get offered the job either [/QUOTE]
Sorry to read that. Please don't take this the wrong way as I grew up navigating it so I don't really understand, but how does one get lost in a grid system? Was there some obstacle to following the usual L shaped routes in that particular location?

 

[toffee]

[QUOTE 4505078, member: 259"]I once went to an interview at Milton Keynes by train and got totally lost trying to get to the building by foot. I could see the building but it took ages to work out how to get there so I arrived pretty late and sweating profusely. I didn't get offered the job either [/QUOTE]

If you can get lost trying to get to a building you can.see from the station then you have no hope as you can only see a few hundred yards because of the buildings.

Derek

 

[toffee]

I'd be amazed if there were cyclist/pedestrian collisions. There are so few of either.

The original redways were reputed to be dangerous for women - and, if you had to design a cycle path that was dangerous for women, or anybody else, that would be it. I used to go up to Phil Corley's in the mid eighties, and, by that time they were hardly used.

I think you need to actually visit mk and not just the station square. How can a red way be dangerous to women. Or do you mean women have been attacked on a red way. Of course they have and lots of men too. It's just the same as any big town, except it is actually bigger than most.

Derek

 

[dellzeqq]

I think you need to actually visit mk and not just the station square. How can a red way be dangerous to women. Or do you mean women have been attacked on a red way. Of course they have and lots of men too. It's just the same as any big town, except it is actually bigger than most.

Derek

I've visited MK all over. From Stony Stratford to Stacey Bushes. From Willen to Wavertree. From to Bletchley to Blakelands and Broughton. By train, by car, by bus, by bike. I've cycled in it, around it, and through it. I've lead a 50 strong bike ride across it. If there was a waterfront I'd have walked it. Come to think of it, I've done Willen Lake.

 

[toffee]

I've visited MK all over. From Stony Stratford to Stacey Bushes. From Willen to Wavertree. From to Bletchley to Blakelands and Broughton. By train, by car, by bus, by bike. I've cycled in it, around it, and through it. I've lead a 50 strong bike ride across it. If there was a waterfront I'd have walked it. Come to think of it, I've done Willen Lake.

So you have seen both the good and the bad parts , yet you have only had an option of what you consider bad. There are not many place where you can be in the middle of a town and not just the shopping centre, and yet be in pleasant country side.

Derek

 

[dellzeqq]

So you have seen both the good and the bad parts , yet you have only had an option of what you consider bad. There are not many place where you can be in the middle of a town and not just the shopping centre, and yet be in pleasant country side.

Derek

there's no other place that gobbles up so much pleasant countryside. I'm appalled by the western extension beyond the old A5.

Did you read Charlie's opening post?

yup. Did he hit any pedestrians?

 

[mjr]

I'd be amazed if there were cyclist/pedestrian collisions. There are so few of either.

MK currently has an about-average amount of walking and an above-average amount of cycling, according to official statistics.

 

[uphillstruggler]

@User259, and that was based on getting lost from the station to a building a few hundred metres away?

where do you live and is it perfect?

I use the redways to go to the shops, all around MK, not just central MK. there are loads of cyclists, peds etc using them. that's what they are for, getting around without using a car. just because the OP cant break any records it doesn't mean that that they don't fulfil their purpose.

I grew up in MK, using the redways and have no issues with them at all, there are one or two places where the surfaces are poor but that's about it. as for people not being able to ride on the right side, give me a break, you don't own them, use your bell or say hello instead of criticizing them.

if anyone would like to come to MK, ill take you around showing a few of the places I enjoy, traffic free.

come on, we can even go for a pint and not worry about cars.

 

[toffee]

there's no other place that gobbles up so much pleasant countryside. I'm appalled by the western extension beyond the old A5.
yup. Did he hit any pedestrians?

Thing is that you notice the building because it is in one place. I used to live in Devon and every village had new housing. It didn't seem that much because it was spread out.

The western extension beyond the A5 was in the original plan for Milton Keynes. It's just that wealthy land owners got it taken out of the version that everyone knows.

Anyway everyone to themselves, you obviously have a slanted view of the area.

Derek