growingvegetables
Guru
- Location
- Leeds
The condescending sh!t! Thought this might be a PC way to peddle his ignorance, and defend his aggressive drivers. Beggars belief.
Addison Lee HM Government Petition Page
- Thread starter Sore Thumb
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Manifietso
New Member
- Location
- Coventry
If I am expressing my own view, then I am also advocating it and by definition that is the view that says the petition should not be signed, a view clearly held by many people for many reasons, otherwise you would have had a lot more signatures.
So I am not ignoring the petition - far from it, I have read the petition, and made a deliberate choice not to sign it. That is quite different.
It is my opinion, and I stand by it. Let's go through the petition bit by bit and I'll explain why:
Nothing wrong with that, but don't dress it up like its not your opinion.
Well firstly, that isn't the case. Taxi licensing is the responsibility of TfL. So straight away you are barking up the wrong tree.
And as I understand it, this has now gone to the High Court, and TfL have won, so this should not be happening any more. If it is, then what is needed is a process of gathering evidence to bring about a prosecution - not a petition or trial by twitter.
Has he specifically said to his drivers to run cyclists off the road or ignore cyclists?
Or has he just said some things we don't like to hear? That is not a criminal offence, and I don't like the idea that we should be targetting someone just because we don't agree with him. After all, the right to freedom of movement is something we all hold dear. We should also respect his freedom of speech, even if he is talking garbage.
If you have a dossier of evidence of repeated motoring offences made by cabs under his control then by all means hand it over to the authorities concerned, but that is not the same as simply calling for his licence to be revoked based on what were clearly meant to be highly provocative comments.
And long may the good work continue. But it is not an offence to take a different view, nor is it an offence to emit carbon (dioxide).
They were indeed irresponsible and the place to take him to task is through the media and other channels of debate. His call to action has been dealth with by the High Court and surely if TfL deem the licence as being something to revoke, they can take that decision on its own merits.
He also called for more training for cyclists. Pot, kette, black maybe but I agree with him on that point.
Is basis to keep going with all the campaigns that are running, and to redouble our efforts to call for "Dutch style" cycling in the UK.
It was people like him (on another forum) that made me come here and I hope to engage in useful discussion, but free speech is also a value to be defended, even when it gets ugly:
Really not a fair comparison and it does our cause no credit to make a linkage between the two. AH has been found guilty of "soliciting to murder" amongst other charges. There is the saying that free speech stops when you cry "fire" in the theatre. AH was clearly well over this line. John Griffin is just a stupid prat who deserves to be discredited at every opportunity.
deptfordmarmoset
Full time tea drinker
- Location
- Armonmy Way
Breaking news on the online guardian: Addislob Lee have lost their government contract!
Sore Thumb
Guru
5232
Not bad numbers so far
Not bad numbers so far
deptfordmarmoset
Full time tea drinker
- Location
- Armonmy Way
It's hard to believe he'd be so reckless when his government contract was due for renewal. Prize idiot.
stowie
Legendary Member
Evening Standard interview with John Griffin.
“I thought the cheque had bounced, and that’s the truth, because I got nothing,” he says. “With all the money I’ve spent there’s not one person who has stepped out of the breach and said, ‘Mr Griffin, we support what you’re doing.’ Shall I tell you why? Because they are frightened to death of the taxi trade.”
This clearly upsets him. “Do you think I would have gone to court to get myself into the bus lanes if I could just pick the phone up and say, ‘David, deal with this little problem for me, will you? I’ve given you a few quid’.”
Clearly he believes that the "few quid" bunged to the tory party hasn't been a worthy "investment".
Read the article. I am of the opinion that - to paraphrase Masterchef - cockwombleness doesn't get bigger than this...
deptfordmarmoset
Full time tea drinker
- Location
- Armonmy Way
Manifietso
New Member
- Location
- Coventry
Well I have no sympathy for him, but all the more reason to let him just stew in his own juice.
I'd take a different tack now and turn the guns on TfL. Is it not just a bit rich that TfL are having a go at Addison Lee for driving in their bus lanes (at the end of the day, AL are taxis, just a different definition), when there seem to be quite a few of their own buses showing complete regard for advance stop boxes? I got the reg and time of one earlier and tried to point out to him that he shouldn't have been there, but he just gave me a blank look. Obviously I wouldn't expect a bus to reverse, but there needs to be a simple process - see them in the box, snap a picture, upload it to TfL, driver gets at the very least a severe reprimand, and frankly they should be getting an £80 fine too.
After all, many of you Londoners have helmet cams, not something we do out in the sticks here. I reported an nxcoventry bus for doing the same last week, still awaiting an acknowledgement from NX.
Manifietso - It is you being inconsistent. The buses and drivers are run by private companies - not TfL. Many of us have complained that standards of bus driving have declined over the years. Whether it is due to this or the greater pressure of operating a one man bus I don't know.
However, the primary losers in this fight would be the very people who the lanes were designated for - bus passengers. We should not forget that we are the accidental beneficiaries of the growth in bus laning. It is for bus passengers the most effective and efficient way of moving people on our roads that the minicabs should be kept out.
You are confusing the arguement. Your pedantic point about the petition naming the DoT as the responsible department is irrelevant. The reason for the petition is not to get that department to do anything but to be part of a public campaign to say no. We have already seen John Griffin trim his sails in front of bad publicity. A reason to turn up the wick even more.
However, the primary losers in this fight would be the very people who the lanes were designated for - bus passengers. We should not forget that we are the accidental beneficiaries of the growth in bus laning. It is for bus passengers the most effective and efficient way of moving people on our roads that the minicabs should be kept out.
You are confusing the arguement. Your pedantic point about the petition naming the DoT as the responsible department is irrelevant. The reason for the petition is not to get that department to do anything but to be part of a public campaign to say no. We have already seen John Griffin trim his sails in front of bad publicity. A reason to turn up the wick even more.
wintonbina
Über Member
- Location
- Bournemouth
5494
Manifietso
New Member
- Location
- Coventry
Stuart,
I meant their as in the wider sense of the word - buses still under the auspices of TfL, the buses and routes still branded as TfL, but I assume the discipline of the drivers would be under each operator?
Is there a specific mechanism to report drivers who are in advance stop boxes when they shouldn't be? There should be, and that could be up to TfL to self police, as the Met and CoL police don't appear to be doing anything about them.
Maybe self policing can't work - after all, straying into the advance stop box is technically supposed to be the same level of offence as running the light, but it abuse by drivers is flagrant. Professional drivers should know better.
My comment wasn't about the existence of bus lanes. That's probably for another thread. My comment was that buses appear to be routinely abusing advance stop boxes. I was saying that if TfL are going after legal protection of their bus lanes, which they are quite entitled to do, then we should also be going after TfL to protect our advance stop boxes, which we are also entitled to do.
Why is it pedantic at all? It is about making sure the right people hear the argument. The DfT are a national body, and AL are the responsibility of TfL, a local body.
Sorry, but as someone who lives outside London, I do not want parliament debating something that is a London issue. That should be self explanatory. I want parliament to be getting on with providing the budget for more infrastructure and not just handing out token amounts to selected projects.
Maybe, but the campaign should stick to what is reasonable within its remit. I take no issue whatsoever with boycott calls, he deserves what he gets. TfL appears perfectly capable of coming down on AL when it comes to the bus lanes issue, and any legal or licence action taken should be based on this and nothing else.
If Griffin has said things that offend us, then there are numerous legitimate avenues of debate in which to take him on. To suggest part of the reasoning for removing his licence is just because he says things we disagree with, weakens the rest of the case.
For those of us that were there yesterday, remember where the event started - at Speakers' Corner. The right to free speech applies to idiot minicab bosses just as much as it applies to us as cyclists.
I don't think that is confusing the argument at all, it is about drawing a clear distinction between advising your drivers to break the law and speaking up for what you believe in, however objectionable that may be.
I meant their as in the wider sense of the word - buses still under the auspices of TfL, the buses and routes still branded as TfL, but I assume the discipline of the drivers would be under each operator?
Is there a specific mechanism to report drivers who are in advance stop boxes when they shouldn't be? There should be, and that could be up to TfL to self police, as the Met and CoL police don't appear to be doing anything about them.
Maybe self policing can't work - after all, straying into the advance stop box is technically supposed to be the same level of offence as running the light, but it abuse by drivers is flagrant. Professional drivers should know better.
My comment wasn't about the existence of bus lanes. That's probably for another thread. My comment was that buses appear to be routinely abusing advance stop boxes. I was saying that if TfL are going after legal protection of their bus lanes, which they are quite entitled to do, then we should also be going after TfL to protect our advance stop boxes, which we are also entitled to do.
Why is it pedantic at all? It is about making sure the right people hear the argument. The DfT are a national body, and AL are the responsibility of TfL, a local body.
Sorry, but as someone who lives outside London, I do not want parliament debating something that is a London issue. That should be self explanatory. I want parliament to be getting on with providing the budget for more infrastructure and not just handing out token amounts to selected projects.
Maybe, but the campaign should stick to what is reasonable within its remit. I take no issue whatsoever with boycott calls, he deserves what he gets. TfL appears perfectly capable of coming down on AL when it comes to the bus lanes issue, and any legal or licence action taken should be based on this and nothing else.
If Griffin has said things that offend us, then there are numerous legitimate avenues of debate in which to take him on. To suggest part of the reasoning for removing his licence is just because he says things we disagree with, weakens the rest of the case.
For those of us that were there yesterday, remember where the event started - at Speakers' Corner. The right to free speech applies to idiot minicab bosses just as much as it applies to us as cyclists.
I don't think that is confusing the argument at all, it is about drawing a clear distinction between advising your drivers to break the law and speaking up for what you believe in, however objectionable that may be.
Dear Manifietso:
First you appear to attribute comments to me I did not make and use them to argue against me. That is very naughty.
Secondly you continue to try and divert the thread to buses in ASLs which has nothing to do with the AL dispute. This is also unhelpful.
Actually there is no right to free speech in this country. Nevertheless if you want to chance your hand the best place for a Bus/ASL discussion is, wait for it, a Bus/ASL thread. Please go start one and not hijack this one. TIA.
First you appear to attribute comments to me I did not make and use them to argue against me. That is very naughty.
Secondly you continue to try and divert the thread to buses in ASLs which has nothing to do with the AL dispute. This is also unhelpful.
Actually there is no right to free speech in this country. Nevertheless if you want to chance your hand the best place for a Bus/ASL discussion is, wait for it, a Bus/ASL thread. Please go start one and not hijack this one. TIA.
Manifietso
New Member
- Location
- Coventry
Stuart,
Really not my intention. The only thing I added on was a quote from the government's petitions site about their role, namely this:
If I did not credit that as specifically from the government website and not yourself, then I apologise, there was no malice intended, sorry you took it that way.
Just pointing out that when it comes to specifically designated road space, there is an element of pot kettle and black from TfL. I'll say no more here, and start a separate thread as you request.
Really not my intention. The only thing I added on was a quote from the government's petitions site about their role, namely this:
If I did not credit that as specifically from the government website and not yourself, then I apologise, there was no malice intended, sorry you took it that way.
Just pointing out that when it comes to specifically designated road space, there is an element of pot kettle and black from TfL. I'll say no more here, and start a separate thread as you request.