Advice needed on long distance tour

[ollywonka]

I plan to complete the route shown on this map next summer. http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=201714063196342955137.0004bc28a3be095e966bd&msa=0

I have no experience of tour cycling so was hoping to get some feedback on a few things or anything people wish to contribute.
I do plan to begin training about now and complete a UK tour prior to taking this on
1. Recommendations on suitable bikes - tour bikes seem logical choice but what brands are best
2. Daily mileage/how long might this take - hoping to get a group of 4-6 together so what would be realistic - I'm a teacher so my summer holiday is the plan
3. Kit recommendations - I've looked up essentials but any contributions
4. Comments/recommendations on the route - I have researched the German leg in some depth to include the romantic road and other parts but other sections lack research currently.
5. Wear and tear - I've never cycled over 40 miles in a day before or done this on consecutive days so what wear and tear will I and my bike experience and how can I prevent as much as possible?

This is a thrown together idea currently but with positive contributions and my continued research I'm going to make it a reality so thank you for any help you can provide!

Olly

 

[mcshroom]

HI Olly, that looks like fun

I'll have a go at giving some advice, though of course there are as many ways to approach cylcle-touring as there are people, so the biggest piece of advice is make sure you are happy with all your stuff before you set off.

Are you camping along the way or intending to stay in hotels?

Assuming that you are camping then I would recommend a touring bike for that sort of distance. Depending on budget then Edinburgh Bicycle Cooperative, Dawes, Ridgeback, Hewitt, Thorn and others all make good touring bikes, so if possible I'd try a few out and go for the one that fits you the best. I'd also recommend having front and rear racks on the bike to spread the load out (although if you are in a group then you may be able to split the big things up and carry less luggage), and look at 36 spoke wheels (most tourers will have these as standard). Also look into a nice comfortable saddle (look around the forum as there's lots of saddle advice, but usually one thing to note is that more padding is less comfortable over long distances)

Bikes handle differently when loaded up, but differently doesn't necessarily mean worse (it's amazing how stable and serene I find my Dawes Vantage when fully laden). It would probably be a good idea to do some rides with the bike loaded up as part of your training. Something like riding to a campsite on a Saturday and home on a Sunday would give you the chance to try everything out and get used to pitching and striking camp. This is of course before you do your UK tour

Training wise I'd suggest you will actually improve during the tour but I'll leave the real advice on this to the longer distance tourers. I know that it can be a good idea to have a day off touring every now and again to recharge. With respect to distances, again it depends on how heavy your bike is going to be and how much sight-seeing you want to do but I find I average about 50-60 miles/day when touring (though many can do more and many less). I haven't got a way of measuring that route on this computer, but working it out on about 50 miles/day would probably give you a good estimate of how long it will take and whether it's feasible to ride the route in a summer holiday period.

Kit wise, get waterproof panniers. The usual recommendation is Ortlieb (I don't have any but those who have think they are great). I would look for waterproof panniers and decent fixing mechanisms to keep them on the bike. Even if you don't plant to ride at night, get some decent lights as at some point you will probably need them, and think about carrying the tools to take your cassette off in order to fix broken spokes (and spare spokes) Biggest piece of equipment to take, however, is lots and lots of enthusiasm

Bikes are built for running long distances, so wearing things out is not that likely on one tour. Make sure the chain is looked after, and replace it if needed before you start wearing out the cassette. Carry spare brake pads (you will probably wear out at least one pair with rim brakes, not sure about disks but always a good idea to carry them anyway). Hopefully you'd get round fine, but carrying a few spokes of all three sizes on your wheels could be very useful, and the spoke key would be useful for keeping wheels true even if the spokes stay in tact. Basically keep the bike as you would if you were commuting from home every day. I'd expect you to kill a chain or two and probably one cassette during the ride (though I think I kill mine quite quickly compared to others).

Most of all, have fun - and make us all jealous with all your wonderful photos and reports when you get back

 

[snorri]

All excellent advice from mcshroom, some more thoughts you may wish to consider....
Regarding the route, it appears you have just located the towns you wish to visit rather than plot the actual route, and the Prague to Hamburg section appears to be "disconnected". I just wonder if the overall mileage may be a bit ambitious unless you intend to spend little time sightseeing and enjoying the scenes along the way. My average mileage on 6 week tours in recent years has been 37miles per day, quite a bit less than mcshroom!
Consider using the Harwich-Hook of Holland for one leg to add to the variety.
Some people enjoy the planning as much as the actual tour whilst others enjoy discovering the unexpected as they progress, how much planning you might want to do is a personal choice.
You might find the Bikeline guides helpful, http://www.esterbauer.com/international.html
Everyone has a different list of essential kit for touring, shorter tours beforehand will help you discover what you need to take, but do try to avoid taking too much. It will be easy to obtain any extra gear on the tour if necessary, none of your route is far from supply sources.
Interesting that you are considering a group of 4-6, usually tourers undertaking multi week tours are loners with no friends.
More seriously, solo tourers find it easier to meet up and chat with locals and other tourers which can greatly enhance the tour experience.
It will be fun.

 

[ollywonka]

Thanks for the advice so far, all much appreciated. The plan is to follow the blue line - i basically started by finding places I wanted to go and started joining the dots - a method that has served me well in train based travelled. The disconnected dots are discarded basically unless I have a change of heart. In honesty I did plan this as a loner but one friend is an avid and interested cyclist and thought I'd try and make it more group based as people seem interested. I have travelled alone in other forms but am aware cycling can be easier in a group which is another attraction.

All excellent advice from mcshroom, some more thoughts you may wish to consider....
Regarding the route, it appears you have just located the towns you wish to visit rather than plot the actual route, and the Prague to Hamburg section appears to be "disconnected". I just wonder if the overall mileage may be a bit ambitious unless you intend to spend little time sightseeing and enjoying the scenes along the way. My average mileage on 6 week tours in recent years has been 37miles per day, quite a bit less than mcshroom!
Consider using the Harwich-Hook of Holland for one leg to add to the variety.
Some people enjoy the planning as much as the actual tour whilst others enjoy discovering the unexpected as they progress, how much planning you might want to do is a personal choice.
You might find the Bikeline guides helpful, http://www.esterbauer.com/international.html
Everyone has a different list of essential kit for touring, shorter tours beforehand will help you discover what you need to take, but do try to avoid taking too much. It will be easy to obtain any extra gear on the tour if necessary, none of your route is far from supply sources.
Interesting that you are considering a group of 4-6, usually tourers undertaking multi week tours are loners with no friends.
More seriously, solo tourers find it easier to meet up and chat with locals and other tourers which can greatly enhance the tour experience.
It will be fun.

 

[Ticktockmy]

Mushroom has given you some great advice, likewise Snorri average mileage is is about right, for myself I tend to ride about 50-60 miles a day as I like to stop and rest and look at the vista's and sight see so 40mpd is about right. Parts of your blue route can be quite lumpy so you need to allow for good days and bad days and really bad bad days. Things will go pear shaped normally when you least expect it, and normally something you had not planned for, that the nice thing about Long distance touring; surprise!.
When it comes to Kit, I guess the guru of Kit " williem" will be on to advice on that, as he seems to be up speed on the latest kit and equipment more so than I.

About riding as a group, firstly I am a loner I love it, Just have myself to worry about and can change my plans at as and when I feel like it. However I think if you need to have people around you then it good to be in a group that's not too big, as everyone will have there own thoughts and ideas as to what should be happening, and for sure on anything longer than a couple of weeks even two people will start to get pee'ed with each others company at times, so its good during a long tour, if the group splits up for a day to ride alone to gather there thought and do there own thing. Some worry about being along on the road, in case of accidents or illness or some other trauma, don't worry I have found that every where I have been always some one local will come to your aid, there are few bad people out there compared with the many nice people.
We all have other interests some like to do tourist stuff and visit castles and such like, others like to take Pics of hills and mountains, others like to stop and do sketching or just lean with their back against a tree and take in the view and have a little nap(that's me).

Before you go you need some shake down rides, firstly for your bike and camping equipment (if you intend to camp) to show up any faults, I would also practice repairing and changing inner tubes, and repairing chains, and general daily maintenance (checking fixtures and fittings) each evening after the ride, helps spot and problems waiting to surprise you on the next day ride, if you are camping practice putting the tent up in the rain and wind as well as the nice days.

Some place even in Europe have crap cycle tracks and gravel roads, so another thing to practice is riding fully loaded on some rough tracks and bridleways, as a fully loaded touring bike can handle differently when on rough tracks and roads, better to practice at home near to home that in Europe, it also helps show up the weakness in the kit.

Personally I would do your route anti-clockwise, as your route along the coast of the Netherlands can be a tad windy at times mind so can Northern France.

 

[Fandango]

Don't forget that automatic mapping systems will probably use the motorways/A roads to work out distances, and you will be much happier on the backroads, cycling through little villages and towns. This will add a considerable distance over a tour that long.

50 miles per day is doable if you are fit, not too overloaded, get off early, and it's not too hilly. You don't want to make a tour into a painful slog from one place to the next without time to look around. It is easy to be too optimistic as a novice tourer, most of us have done it. 50 miles on a map doesn't look very far, but when you get there and find it's a muddy track with tree roots going up a mountain it will seem very different. I once thought I could cycle through an area marked sand dunes as there was a line on the map that looked like a path. I ended up having to carry my fully loaded bike over several very high sand dunes followed by carrying it up a very large sand hill. Anything that even looks like sand now sends a shiver up my spine.

Kit wise, it depends on how much you want to spend. The bikes mentioned above are all good - I love my Ridgeback Panorama but there are many other choices. I also love my Laserspace 3 tent but you might want to keep the weight down with a smaller tent, or maybe you will be staying at B&B's or hostels so you don't need a luxurious tent. As for the rest, unless you have thigh muscles of a God, the lighter stuff is the easier it is to drag along, and you ask yourself "do I really need to carry this" about everything.

So take it easy, have a great time, and don't forget to tell us about it.

 

[willem]

I think this is perhaps a bit too ambitious for a first time. But it depends: if you are not an experienced cyclist but a very fit walker with a lot of camping experience, there should be no problem. So let me throw in a few ideas:
First as for the route. I think premapped bike routes like those from Esterbauer are a good thing, as they make for more scenic rides, less traffic, and avoid impossibly steep parts. See here for a Dutch site with some suggestions: http://europafietsers.nl/klik/routes-all.htm
Second, for accommodation: I am all in favour of camping. It is much cheaper, esp on such a long trip, and generally nicer. On a long trip such as yours, you can earn back even expensive camping gear in less than one summer.
Third, about daily distances: I think 500 km per week is good going. It will give you one or two rest days a week, for resting, sightseeing, and domestic chores. When climbing seriously, realistic distances will be much less.
Fourth, take less stuff (a contentious issue where I am firmly in the lightweight camp)
Fifth, try to do a shorter tour first with whatever kit and bike you already have. List what you do not have, and come back for fail safe suggestions that you will never regret.
Sixth, come back after your first ride, and then discuss what bike and kit you really need - and what sort of budget you could muster.
Great idea, I wish I had this much time.
Willem

 

[rollinstok]

Consider a decent mtb ( deore lx or xt groupset ) for a touring bike
Swap the knobblys for slicks, put a rigid fork on and bar ends and you will have a good touring machine with a strong frame/wheels and ideal gearing
The beauty with mtb's is that you can grab some real bargains by buying last years model that may just have a different colour scheme for up to 40% off .. this doesnt happen with touring specific bikes as often.
I once bought a DBR ( diamondback racing ) mtb with full XT groupset and nice Mavic wheels, Rockshock SID forks for £599.. recommended £1800, just because the bike was a year out of date and Diamondback was associated with cheap bikes so didnt sell well. I took that bike all round the UK and most parts of Europe without any problems at all.

 

[rollinstok]

ps, I sold the SID forks for £200 and got some new Kona project 2 rigid forks for £70

 

[jay clock]

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=1&doctype=journal is a superb resource. My first one is here http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=1&doc_id=1444&v=2c but there are more

 

[rich p]

Wear and tear - I've never cycled over 40 miles in a day before or done this on consecutive days so what wear and tear will I and my bike experience and how can I prevent as much as possible?

I've had hardly any issues with my Galaxy after 1000's of miles of 50 mpd touring although I have enough stuff to cope with spoke breakage, brake block reolacement and geartrain tweaking.

 

[psmiffy]

I love the route - no idea how you picked the points but if they are good for you, they are good - However, for 6 weeks it is probably a bit too long - be doable in 7 as a challenge - grinding it out - not many rest days, probably end up as a DNF by some or all of the party - personally I think if you used the train to and from the channel (you can visit any of the English bit as day trips anytime) and ditched the Czech excursion it become much more doable - around 3200km/2000miles - still looking at 80km to 100km a day with the occasional rest day.

For a bike something strong – MTB with a decent rear wheel, slickish tyres, rigid front fork and a lot of low gears would be my choice. As long as it is in reasonably good nick – esp tyres, chain – cassette and gear cables/adjustment when you start out it should not need much maintenance apart from the odd bit of oil on the chain and air in the tyres.

Camping is the obvious choice for accommodation – something like 40 nights on the road in static accommodation will not be cheap - it will be the middle of summer – so you do not need that good a set of kit – reasonably weatherproof tent and a semi-decent summer weight sleeping bag – and a comfortable mat.

You will need to decide about what you are going to eat – cafes – choice of diet can be a bit limiting in the cheaper German establishment - or cook your own or a mixture of both –and if you are cooking remember Germany tends to close for the weekends so having the capacity to carry a couple of days food can be useful sometimes.

Take a good set of waterproofs – Ive done a lot of touring in Europe and lived there as a kid – notwithstanding the regular days of rain, getting caught out in the open in a continental summer thunderstorm is not fun.

 

[willem]

If you tell us if you already have a bike and what camping gear, we can more easily help you find suitable stuff. And all the better if you can also indicate a budget. As for bikes, there are a couple of good ones at various price points, to give you some idea. Around the 500 pound mark there is the Edinburgh Bicycle Coop's Revolution Traveler - a tried and tested excellent buy for the money. Further up the scale are various models by German brand Fahrradmanufaktur, and at a bit over 1000 pounds there is the Surly Long Haul Trucker (with a choice of 26 or 28 inch wheels) or their Cross Check for the light brigade. Even more expensive would be a Thorn Raven with a Rohloff 14 speed hub. These are just a few good suggestions, but there are other possibilities, esp. at the more expensive end.
Sleeping stuff: modern insulated air mattresses are lighter, more compact and much more comfortable than the older self inflating mattresses. Good budget options are the Thermarest Neoair Trekker for strictly summer use, or the Exped Synmat Basic 7.5 for temperatures down to around freezing. The Thermarest Neoair Allseason is both very light and compact, and yet warm enough for three season use. But it is more expensive. I would recommend a down sleeping bag as these are lighter and more compact for a given temperature rating. PhD design are about as good as it gets, but expensive. Their sale prices (this Thursday is the last day of their Spring Sale) are better. Polish Cumulus is cheaper and also very good. Alpkit has even cheaper models, but their bags are heavier. The importance of a compact sleep system is that with it you can avoid front panniers and a lowrider rack. Between them, these cost 100-150 pounds and weigh some 2-2.5 kg, empty. Use the money you save by not having front panniers to buy more expensive but compact sleeping gear.
Panniers. The snag is that these are heavy - I manage to avoid using front ones. Ortlieb are very good, but heavy and expensive. Their City line is cheaper, lighter and just as sturdy. They also do an experimental even lighter series (only from this shop, and priced a piece): http://www.outdoorworks.de/index.php?site=index.html&prod=7337&vid=86748&function=set_lang&lang=en
Tents. I think at 1.7 kg the new Hilleberg Anjan 2 is the ideal light and comfortable three season tent. The quality is superb, but the price is high. The MSR Hubba Hubba HP (get the HP version) is another spacious quality tent in the sub 2 kg category (cheaper, but also not quite as good as the Hilleberg). There are a few small solo tents around the 1 kg mark. Good examples are the Terra Nova Laser (cheaper demo versions are often available from TN) or the Vaude Power Lizard. But these are all rather small tents. Wild Country do a much cheaper 1.5 kg version of this style.
Stoves. I prefer a Trangia 27 UL HA alcohol stove, because the fuel is so easy to get. Gas stoves are easier to use, but the gas is sometimes hard to get. Cannisters come in two varieties: the near universal Lindall screw valve type, and the Camping Gaz click type. In France screw cannisters are very hard to get. Primus now do a few stove models that are compatible with both types of cannisters (Duo models). The Trangia pots and pans are available separately, and are very good, about as light as titanium, and cheap.
I hope this will get your gear thinking going - enjoy,
Willem