Advice on technique please..... no, not that kind of technique!

[fudgepanda]

A lot of interesting replies, many thanks. I'm not sure exactly what size frame it has but I tried two or three different sized bikes in the shop and took the advice of the staff in selecting a smaller size frame. Asking around it seems the Bicycle Doctor in Manchester has a good reputation as being run by knowledgeable staff who are all very active cyclists. Sitting down I find it really comfortable and easier to maintain speed for a lower level of effort than the Carrera, which I now know is pretty obvious given the knobbly tyres and greater weight of the latter. It's when I come to a hill and am going steadily down through the gears that the standing up, yeah ok then, honking will be useful. Plus the fact that I'd like to improve my cycling technique as I intend to buy a road bike next year. I'm 5'8" and although I'd like to say I have huge genitals, I have to admit it's down to short legs, 29" inside leg in trousers. I reach the bottom of the crank throw just before the leg is fully extended and if I drop my heel the leg is actually dead straight. Hope this adds a little perspective.

 

[fudgepanda]

Back to the OP, the Bianchi and Carrera are fairly different, and taking 1/3 off the length will have a huge impact on feel as will any difference in handlebar heights.

One thing about technique, though, is that I pull up on the corresponding bar when I do stand on the pedals, keeping the bike more level than it would otherwise be and, to an extent, using arm as well as leg muscles to provide power.

Ah, now then. Just to clarify, are you saying that when you push down on the right hand pedal you pull up on the right had bar, and when you push down on the left hand pedal you pull up on the left hand bar?

The stem, or is it the steerer (the bit that the bars are clamped to anyway) is an adjustable FSA number and at the moment seems to be inclined up at about 30 degrees (rough estimate) from the horizontal. I'm wondering if I adjust it downwards closer to horizontal it would place my hands slightly further forward and lower than at present what kind of effect that might have. I'm not one of life's inveterate fiddlers so wouldn't make any adjustments rashly.

 

[fudgepanda]

Talk about bitchin come on you lot sort yourselves out.
When i had my hybrid i had the same problem the stem was adjustable so i tilted it foreward.
That sorted the standing up problem, but gave my back a bit of stick.

Damn. If I'd read your post a little more carefully I might have been able to avoid my above question.

 

[Sandra6]

I ride a hybrid and I can't comfortably stand to pedal unless I'm in a high gear on a hill, and even then it's actually easier to drop gears and go slower. I thought it was just me.
When I started cycling I thought you were supposed to stand to get up the hills, turns out I was misled.
I very rarely stand now.
Had no idea it was called honking either.

 

[Hacienda71]

I think that it may be harder to get out of the saddle on a flat bar bike because of your hand position. On a road bike you tend to be holding the hoods when out of the saddle, so you hands are parallel to the frame but on a flat bar your hands at right angles to the frame which I find less comfortable out of the saddle. On my early nineties MTB I have bar ends which give me a greater number of hand positions and when I get out of the saddle I tend to hold these rather than the bars. It may just be that I am more used to riding road bikes though.

 

[Norm]

Ah, now then. Just to clarify, are you saying that when you push down on the right hand pedal you pull up on the right had bar, and when you push down on the left hand pedal you pull up on the left hand bar?

The stem, or is it the steerer (the bit that the bars are clamped to anyway) is an adjustable FSA number and at the moment seems to be inclined up at about 30 degrees (rough estimate) from the horizontal. I'm wondering if I adjust it downwards closer to horizontal it would place my hands slightly further forward and lower than at present what kind of effect that might have. I'm not one of life's inveterate fiddlers so wouldn't make any adjustments rashly.

To the first paragraph, yes, arms and legs work against each other. I'm not sure that it is the most efficient but it keeps the bike flatter.

To the second paragraph, there are too many variable to give a definite yes or no, IMO. Bars ends, bar height, tube lengths, torso:arm ratio... etc. In general, lowering the bars will put more weight through your arms so the action of your legs will be lessened, but it will affect other things such as cornering feel as well. Although I much prefer lower bars on a town / commuter as it gives more control, it can be less comfortable.

 

[Boris Bajic]

Standing up (or honking) is sonething the average utility rider never need do if the bike is set up perfectly. Can't remember the last time I honked. Years, possibly decades.

I thought you were a little dismissively critical of 400bhp's questioning of your post (above), yet the tone you take in it is quite dismissive. It may not be intentionally so, but it reads that way.

You do not answer the question, but appear to be advising against the necessity of the activity being asked about. You say that the average utility rider has no need to do it. You base this on your own riding history. The whole tone is slightly dismissive.

I'm afraid I'm with 400bhp. I am an old, grey, utility rider and I'm constantly getting out of the saddle. My kids do it too, none of them pro-cyclists. Most riders I know pop out of the saddle from time to time, for fun, for a change in effort, to save a downchange over a short rise or just because they can. Those of us who climb a lot in our dawdling, utility-rider way will use a quick burst (or longer slog) out of the saddle to shorten a climb.

To answer the OP: If you like the set-up while riding in the saddle, then the thing is probably right for you. That is not an absolute truth, but it is a positive sign that it feels right. There is much talk of the 'perfect' set-up, but I'm not sure it exists. My set-up changes often and is worked out with little more than a tape measure and a plumbline.

What might be causing the bike to swing so much is a low gear. I usually knock it up one or two on the block if I'm coming out of the saddle. It is certainly harder to keep the plot stable at higher cadences.

Also, bikes are much lighter than they were and the geometry of a road frame usually gives a less directionally stable ride. There is a delicious 'dartiness' to modern roadbikes, highlighted all the more if you've switched from an MTB.

Try honking in a higher gear. Click up (so much easier these days) as you start to come out of the saddle.

And keep enjoying the new bike. It sounds lovely!

 

[Glow worm]

Standing up (or honking) is sonething the average utility rider never need do if the bike is set up perfectly. Can't remember the last time I honked. Years, possibly decades.

Same here. It's something I never feel any need to do and a pal of mine says I look like I'm sat in a comfy armchair going up hills! it's quite fun cruising past honkers on one steepish bridge on my commute as they huff and puff in a ridiculous gear

 

[Big boy]

A note of caution to anyone attempting to "honk" on a bike with a Sturmy Archer 3 speed hub. Make sure that the toggle chain is correctly set. As a lad of about 14 I neglected this piece of basic maintenance and as I was getting into my honk the gears slipped and I came down quite hard on the crossbar and bashed my pods quite hard. Missed both my legs though.

Did the same myself as a kid, i had fitted a chopper gearchang to the top bar and came don onto it spuds first.
Only thing that held me up was the bike..

 

[derrick]

I think you just need to ride more,

 

[fudgepanda]

Norm, Boris, thanks for your comments. I'll try the hands vs. pedals thing next time out and the bike does feel good when sitting down so I'll leave everything as is and work on technique. I think you're right in what you say about the gears Boris as it does feel as if there's not enough resistance to the effort I'm putting in.

I do actually try and ride sitting down but on hills I'm in danger of running out of gears so standing up seems to be the best option for keeping some semblance of speed up.

I do need to ride more.

And Derrick, I'm loving mine as well.

 

[fudgepanda]

Sandra, I think we must be in the same boat. Thanks Hacienda, good point. I might have to think about bar ends.

 

[lulubel]

What's the height relationship of the saddle to the handlebars, and how does it compare to the Carreras?

I find riding out of the saddle easy on a drop or flat barred bike as long as the bars are about level with or lower than the saddle. As soon as the bars get more than an inch or two higher than the saddle, I find it hard to balance properly.

 

[TheJDog]

A shorter wheelbase bike will feel twitchier, especially when you're out of the saddle, or riding with fewer than two hands on the bars. You'll get used to it in time, I expect.

I'm out of the saddle for half my commute. It's just better exercise. It's working your upper body as well as the lower body. You can play around, too. I try to hold the bars with a feather touch, sometimes, or really pull on the other times.

 

[fudgepanda]

What's the height relationship of the saddle to the handlebars, and tow does it compare to the Carreras?

I find riding out of the saddle easy on a drop or flat barred bike as long as the bars are about level with or lower than the saddle. As soon as the bars get more than an inch or two higher than the saddle, I find it hard to balance properly.

I think I might be finding the opposite effect. I'm not at work at the moment, the Carreras are firm's bikes and haven'tseen them for a few days but I'm pretty certain the bars are higher than the saddle whereas on my Bianchi they're about the same height. I'm also pretty certain that the frames on the mtbs are quite a lot bigger all round.