Advice on which locks to use from experience?

[chris667]

Let me repeat an earlier post I made. There is only 1 bicycle lock on the market currently that I know of that can be carried practically, and be angle grinder proof, and that lock is the Hiplock D1000, which includes any chain, any other D lock, any folding lock, any cable, etc. There is another lock that is also angle grinder proof but the thing was so huge it is highly impractical to carry it on a bike.

It strikes me that a lot of testing/evaluation of locks is done by people who have never stolen anything.

I really laugh at the idea of an angle-grinder proof lock. Such a thing doesn't exist. It is where you leave your bike and how you lock it that matters. If someone wants your bike they will get it eventually but if you can put them off and go for the next one, you have a chance that you'll keep yours.

I used to know a cyclist who owned a Bike Friday. It was stolen from the middle of Manchester. The thieves turned up with hi vis jackets in a van, cut the Sheffield stand and removed all the bikes in one go. Hers was probably the same price as all the others on the rack. They didn't care. Probably all got weighed in.

My Oxford D-lock was about £40 IIRC. 18mm shackle, so too thick to cut with a bolt cropper. I doubt a thief would care or notice the difference between that and a D lock that cost 8 times as much.

Just get the lock that keeps your insurance happy, and lock up somewhere sensible. Frankly, it would be easier and more likely for me to get beaten up while unlocking my bike, or for me just to get jumped while I was riding it somewhere.

 

[fossyant]

Exactly, what you are locking the bike to won't be as strong as most d-locks. What Chris says above was quite common in Manchester, hence only using stands that were within a locked cage - theives would regularly get in, cut the stands and be away. They could then deal with any locks later. At work, I've a choice of a key card access only bike racks (only certain staff) or a secure locker (although most out of use as people have left d-locks on them). Even with the key card access, we have regular issues with a door not closing properly, but seeing as there are only about five regular users now, it's easy to lock and alert the others.

I've noticed a lot less cyclists in my building since coming back - I'm in 3-4 days a week, and I see three other regulars ! This stand takes over 20 bikes, but the stands will be easier to cut through than my locks.

 

[froze]

It strikes me that a lot of testing/evaluation of locks is done by people who have never stolen anything.

I really laugh at the idea of an angle-grinder proof lock. Such a thing doesn't exist. It is where you leave your bike and how you lock it that matters. If someone wants your bike they will get it eventually but if you can put them off and go for the next one, you have a chance that you'll keep yours.

I used to know a cyclist who owned a Bike Friday. It was stolen from the middle of Manchester. The thieves turned up with hi vis jackets in a van, cut the Sheffield stand and removed all the bikes in one go. Hers was probably the same price as all the others on the rack. They didn't care. Probably all got weighed in.

My Oxford D-lock was about £40 IIRC. 18mm shackle, so too thick to cut with a bolt cropper. I doubt a thief would care or notice the difference between that and a D lock that cost 8 times as much.

Just get the lock that keeps your insurance happy, and lock up somewhere sensible. Frankly, it would be easier and more likely for me to get beaten up while unlocking my bike, or for me just to get jumped while I was riding it somewhere.

When I was going to college, a flatbed pickup truck came onto the school grounds with 4 guys in it. They got out of the truck and when to a bike rack with about 10 bikes on it. They cut the bolts that held the rack onto the concrete, lifted the entire rack with the bikes attached, and then put it in the back of the flatbed, and simply drove off. The eyewitnesses said they thought it was the groundskeepers working on the rack?!

The Hiplok can be cut through, but it takes about 3 to 6 disks to do it, and about 5 minutes of time, must thieves are not going to have all those disks with them, nor want to be visible to others for 5 minutes trying to steal a bike...but the videos of where they are cutting it are ALL using a corded not a cordless angle grinders, corded angle grinders have a lot more torque than a cordless one, and the one I saw with a battery-powered job would have gone through an estimated 4 to 6 batteries, and with a battery job it was taking 20 to 30 minutes as an estimated time. The other thing about both the corded and the non-corded videos is that they were bracing the lock, a little difficult to do when shackled to a bike rack.

This is using a cordless angle grinder:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=demX33BKSoI

This one tries a variety of attacks, including a corded angle grinder, but listen to his comments at the end:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk6XGv29RRI
In a similar video to this one, with the same guy, he cuts a cheaper Hiplok, but he says something at the end of the video he didn't say in the video I gave, but once he cut through the D lock he would have had to make a second cut to a big enough chunk out so he can actually remove the lock from the bike. That means all the disks used, all the batteries used, and all the minutes used would have to be doubled!

Therefore using the Hiploc D1000 in the field would be virtually impossible to steal your bike due to the lack of cutting disks, batteries, and too much time.

All we need now is a small portable plasma cutter to be made and we'll be back to taking your bike in 15 seconds using a Hiplok D1000.

 

[Tenkaykev]

When I was going to college, a flatbed pickup truck came onto the school grounds with 4 guys in it. They got out of the truck and when to a bike rack with about 10 bikes on it. They cut the bolts that held the rack onto the concrete, lifted the entire rack with the bikes attached, and then put it in the back of the flatbed, and simply drove off. The eyewitnesses said they thought it was the groundskeepers working on the rack?!

The Hiplok can be cut through, but it takes about 3 to 6 disks to do it, and about 5 minutes of time, must thieves are not going to have all those disks with them, nor want to be visible to others for 5 minutes trying to steal a bike...but the videos of where they are cutting it are ALL using a corded not a cordless angle grinders, corded angle grinders have a lot more torque than a cordless one, and the one I saw with a battery-powered job would have gone through an estimated 4 to 6 batteries, and with a battery job it was taking 20 to 30 minutes as an estimated time. The other thing about both the corded and the non-corded videos is that they were bracing the lock, a little difficult to do when shackled to a bike rack.

This is using a cordless angle grinder:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=demX33BKSoI

This one tries a variety of attacks, including a corded angle grinder, but listen to his comments at the end:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk6XGv29RRI
In a similar video to this one, with the same guy, he cuts a cheaper Hiplok, but he says something at the end of the video he didn't say in the video I gave, but once he cut through the D lock he would have had to make a second cut to a big enough chunk out so he can actually remove the lock from the bike. That means all the disks used, all the batteries used, and all the minutes used would have to be doubled!

Therefore using the Hiploc D1000 in the field would be virtually impossible to steal your bike due to the lack of cutting disks, batteries, and too much time.

All we need now is a small portable plasma cutter to be made and we'll be back to taking your bike in 15 seconds using a Hiplok D1000.

Or a visit from the Lockpickinglawyer...

 

[chris667]

The Hiplok can be cut through, but it takes about 3 to 6 disks to do it, and about 5 minutes of time, must thieves are not going to have all those disks with them, nor want to be visible to others for 5 minutes trying to steal a bike...

Actually, that is not true. A lot of thieves simply wouldn't care. They know that members of the public are unlikely to intervene and statistically the chances of a policeman turning up are slim to none in a lot of places. Properly hardened criminals have a very different mindset to people like us. There are people who would think nothing of killing you for a bike.

True story - a couple of weeks ago, a couple of members of our local travelling community stole a load of scrap from the path to our house. I chased them down the road and actually punched the side of their van. The guys in it laughed at me.

It was really stupid and I'm lucky I didn't break the window. Two of them, one of me, and they were in a 3 1/2 ton pickup. If I'd been unlucky enough to have a fight with them I'd almost certainly have lost. I called 999 and the police have left ONE message on my answerphone in two weeks. They have other more important crimes to chase after, and I don't blame them.

Without wishing to sound judgmental of others, I think it is very unwise to lock a really expensive bike up in some places. If I lived in a really high crime area, I'd have a £30 bike and accept periodic theft as a simple running cost.

 

[froze]

Or a visit from the Lockpickinglawyer...

The problem with lockpicking is that they do have to practice somewhat with a particular lock first, and it is a very rare event for a lockpicker to steal bikes, though it is the best method since it takes no loud tools, you don't look like you're trying to do anything but perhaps having a bit of trouble with your "key" to the public.

The Hiplock D1000 is the best lock currently for war against angle grinders. Like the below video says, they had the advantage of an electrical powered angle grinder and a vise, somethings that a thief won't have.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=198&v=GMg6zVdYI0g&embeds_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fthebestbikelock.com%2F&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE&feature=emb_title


Like another poster said, the best defense is not to have an expensive bike locked up someplace where a thief can get to it, having said that the new rush for stealing bikes are the E bikes! If you have to lock up your E bike, take the battery with you, they're not going to want to spend $500 or more for a battery for a bike they just stoled when the most they'll get on the black market is $500. But use that Hiplock D1000 lock, it's a bit pricey but worth it. Remember too, the lock is only as good as whatever it is locked to, so if you locked it to something small and easy to cut like a small tree, they could cut the tree and take the bike and work on the lock later; or lock it to a short pole that all they have to do is lift the bike up and over the pole, or cSo, the pole itself. So you do have to be mindful of what you lock it to.

Also, you can get bike insurance, if you live in a high crime area, and you are a bit worried, then get the bike insurance on top of the lock

 

[fossyant]

@froze Are you on sales commission ?

 

[Gwylan]

The problem with lockpicking is that they do have to practice somewhat with a particular lock first, and it is a very rare event for a lockpicker to steal bikes, though it is the best method since it takes no loud tools, you don't look like you're trying to do anything but perhaps having a bit of trouble with your "key" to the public.

The Hiplock D1000 is the best lock currently for war against angle grinders. Like the below video says, they had the advantage of an electrical powered angle grinder and a vise, somethings that a thief won't have.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=198&v=GMg6zVdYI0g&embeds_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fthebestbikelock.com%2F&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE&feature=emb_title


Like another poster said, the best defense is not to have an expensive bike locked up someplace where a thief can get to it, having said that the new rush for stealing bikes are the E bikes! If you have to lock up your E bike, take the battery with you, they're not going to want to spend $500 or more for a battery for a bike they just stoled when the most they'll get on the black market is $500. But use that Hiplock D1000 lock, it's a bit pricey but worth it. Remember too, the lock is only as good as whatever it is locked to, so if you locked it to something small and easy to cut like a small tree, they could cut the tree and take the bike and work on the lock later; or lock it to a short pole that all they have to do is lift the bike up and over the pole, or cSo, the pole itself. So you do have to be mindful of what you lock it to.

Also, you can get bike insurance, if you live in a high crime area, and you are a bit worried, then get the bike insurance on top of the lock

Re bike insurance, section 48 or somewhere down the back will say that the bike must be locked with a gold standard lock to something permanent. Even at home.
Wonder dear reader how I found this out

 

[Dadam]

Re bike insurance, section 48 or somewhere down the back will say that the bike must be locked with a gold standard lock to something permanent. Even at home.
Wonder dear reader how I found this out

I was concerned about this point so read the small print. At least for my policy, it doesn't need to be locked in that sense if it's inside a secure locked building, e.g my home, my garage, or my workplace. At least for now, we can park them inside - keypad entry on doors.

 

[Gwylan]

I was concerned about this point so read the small print. At least for my policy, it doesn't need to be locked in that sense if it's inside a secure locked building, e.g my home, my garage, or my workplace. At least for now, we can park them inside - keypad entry on doors.

Be happy. After a theft the insurance company drew my attention to the small print.
This meant that away from home it should be locked to something permanent.
Then the even smaller print the information that the bike should be locked to something permanent.
Hence ground bolts in the garage

 

[froze]

Re bike insurance, section 48 or somewhere down the back will say that the bike must be locked with a gold standard lock to something permanent. Even at home.
Wonder dear reader how I found this out

That is true. But in America, my insurance through Markel says as long as the bikes are in a locked shed, garage, or home they're covered.

 

[simongt]

The Hiplock D1000 @ around £250 is a lot of money, but as I was once told, if you value your bike, then around 10% of the cost of said bike is a sensible rule of thumb to spend on a good lock.

 

[froze]

The Hiplock D1000 @ around £250 is a lot of money, but as I was once told, if you value your bike, then around 10% of the cost of said bike is a sensible rule of thumb to spend on a good lock.

The 10% rule is what I heard too, I use that same rule when I buy surge protectors for electronics AND appliances, yes, appliances because all appliances now have microchip systems in them. The only appliance I can't use a surge protector for is the microwave oven, they draw more watts than a surge protector can handle, and the instruction manuals will tell you not to use any surge protectors or extension cords.

 

[Alex321]

Re bike insurance, section 48 or somewhere down the back will say that the bike must be locked with a gold standard lock to something permanent. Even at home.
Wonder dear reader how I found this out

That does depend on the policy.

Mine (Aviva) just says they must be securely locked to an immovable object, or must be inside a locked building or inside a locked vehicle. It does not specify the standard of lock required.

"If your schedule shows you have cover for pedal cycles they won’t be covered for theft unless: -
in your immediate custody and control; or -
securely locked to an object that can’t be moved; or -
locked inside a concealed boot or concealed luggage compartment of a locked vehicle which has been broken into by using force and violence; or -
in a locked building."

 

[froze]

I forgot that lock thing too, Markel insurance does not specify the kind of lock, I called and spoke to the owner of the company who told me they don't care what we use as long as it's a lock, even a cable lock! But he also said they prefer better locks, but failure to get a better lock will not void the coverage.