Advice with upgrading Groupset

[Felix79]

Hi there, I have only been back on a bike for about 4-5 weeks, but one thing I really enjoy doing is improving upgrading parts on my equipment. I use to do it all the time as a teenager in the 90's and I've been doing it to my beloved Impreza P1 for years too.

I ride on a 2012 Cannondale CAAD8 , which has mostly a Shimano Sora (old style STI's) 2 x 9 speed groupset. The crank is FSA and the brakes are the entry Cannondale C4 ones (Tekka I think someone called them on here?). My wheels are Madoux RS 3.0 and it's these where my main question comes from.

I have decided that I really want to put a Shimano Ultegra groupset onto the bike, replacing the sora but where I am really needing some advice is about the rear cassette. Currently it has a 9 speed one on it, but when I go over to Ultegra STI's I will have to go up to either a 10 or 11 speed system. Will a 10 speed Cassette fit onto my current back wheel, or will it be a case of getting a new rear wheel? (I don't want to swap hubs over as I think it's more sensible to invest in a quality wheel than spend the money on getting one striped and rebuilt).

I do have some Tiagra STI 2 x 9 shifters which I will get installed on the bike, as I prefer having the leavers behind the brake/larger cog leaver, rather than the annoying button on the side like my current Sora shifters have. Will these work fine with Ultegra bits until I move over to Ultegra shifters and rear wheel or is it a case than a 10/11 speed rear mech/derailleur will not function smoothly with a 9 speed setup?

Now I think it's important that I want to change to Ultegra for the joy of upgrading my bike and having something that will be a bit nicer to ride with. I don't know if I will ever do sportifs or anything adventurous for a few years, as the purpose of my bike is to enjoy cycling again and to get my fitness up/recover from long term back problems/poor health. So I know I don't "need" any of the Ultegra bits, but I really enjoy the process of making something better than when I first got it, so it's worth it to me, even if it is not to anyone else.


Thanks for any guidence and help you can give me on this odd scenario of mine.

 

[Crandoggler]

I'd imagine your old wheel will probably be suitable for the cassette it currently has. It may well take a 10 speed though.

The only real way of trying is seeing if your current cassette has a spacer on the freewheel. That would indicate that the wheel is able to take a larger speed cassette. I'd imagine it would be 10 speed maximum though.

I can recommend wheels. Campagnolo Khamsin are immense for the money.

 

[Felix79]

I'd imagine your old wheel will probably be suitable for the cassette it currently has. It may well take a 10 speed though.

The only real way of trying is seeing if your current cassette has a spacer on the freewheel. That would indicate that the wheel is able to take a larger speed cassette. I'd imagine it would be 10 speed maximum though.

I can recommend wheels. Campagnolo Khamsin are immense for the money.

I've got Campagnolo tyres on the bike and have been impressed with how well they roll on such crappy Oxford road surfaces.

Will a quality box section wheel/rim be able to hold a number of different width tyres? The Campagnolo tyres I have are 23's and I would like to go up to a 25-28mm tyre as they should be better at dealing with my high weight and offer a bit more comfort once I start riding longer distances/durations.

 

[Crandoggler]

I used 25mms without problem. I don't know about 28's. But probably!

 

[RegG]

If your intention is to go for a new Ultegra groupset it will come with an 11 speed cassette which will probably need new wheels too from what you have said. There are a wide range of new wheels around at very reasonable prices. If cost is a problem, why not consider a 105 groupset and new wheels. The 105 is a very good set and you probably wouldn't notice any difference between that and Ultegra. The money you save on the groupset would go a long way towards new wheels.

 

[Felix79]

Originally I wanted to go with 105, but when I was looking through the different levels of Shimano groupsets I just really liked the look of the Ultegra stuff.

I have a set of Tiagra 2 x 9 shifters to go on the bike, but they still have that stupid little window with the red line in, which just cheapens the look for me. Annoyingly the one tool I need to fit them is the really long 5mm allen key, but I would need to buy it as part of a set and I've got a crazy amount of tools as it is. (some of them are from the 1930's when my Grandfather was a toolmaker!)

It's a shame I can't find 105 or Ultegra parts for a 9 speed setup as it would allow me to phase in parts rather than changing everything at once.

 

[goody]

If you're happy with 10 speed the current Tiagra is a great groupset at around £250 an extra £50 gets 105 with one extra gear but theres no other difference other than looks imo. ( I have both the current tiagra and 105 on different bikes). Not sure about your maddux wheels but the ones that came on my CAADX were awful.You mention 9 and 10 speed Ultegra so think you maybe looking at used parts to upgrade with? I think you'd be better off with a new tiagra groupset if that's the case, remember with new groupset you get new cables, chain, cassette, brake pads etc.

 

[alecstilleyedye]

khamsin wheels won't work with ultegra; campag and shimano cassettes are not interchangable on the same hub. you'd also upset the purists…

 

[User6179]

khamsin wheels won't work with ultegra; campag and shimano cassettes are not interchangable on the same hub. you'd also upset the purists…

You can get them with Shimano freehub but I think 11 speed Campy and Shimano have the same spacing between cogs on the cassette so you can run campy cassette with Shimano shifters .

 

[alecstilleyedye]

You can get them with Shimano freehub but I think 11 speed Campy and Shimano have the same spacing between cogs on the cassette so you can run campy cassette with Shimano shifters .

 

[Felix79]

I've been looking through on eBay this evening/morning at both Ultegra and 105 parts. I think I should upgrade my front and rear brakes as they are the bog standard Cannondale C4 which are not that good if I am honest.

Rather than changing the rear cassette, I thought killing two birds with one stone by getting a new set of wheels with a 10 speed rear cassette already installed on the wheel. What I am a bit concerned about is requirements for the rear derailleur. Are rear mechs specific to 9, 10 and 11 speed, or is it just as case of the STI's defining if the rear mech does 9 , 10 or 11 speed?

I'm going to have a good look at the current Tiagra parts going on the advice given to me in this thread. To my untrained eye, so far there does not seem to be much of a visual difference between Ultegra and 105. I guess it's going to be weight and feel that differs slightly between the levels of groupset.

 

[vickster]

khamsin wheels won't work with ultegra; campag and shimano cassettes are not interchangable on the same hub. you'd also upset the purists…

Why not? They work with 10 and 11 speed SRAM, you just need the Shimano/sram version
https://www.evanscycles.com/campagnolo-khamsin-asymmetric-shimano-compatible-wheelset-EV147826

 

[Crandoggler]

Totally depends on size of your rear derailleur. They are either short, medium or long cage. You'd need medium/long depending on the amount of teeth on your rear cassette.

 

[vickster]

And a new chain potentially

 

[Felix79]

Totally depends on size of your rear derailleur. They are either short, medium or long cage. You'd need medium/long depending on the amount of teeth on your rear cassette.

So as long as I get a medium or long cage, I should be fine for going over to 10 speed? I would only use a normal cassette size, so no crazy large MTB 1st gear cog!

And a new chain potentially

I was going to replace the chain at the same time, as I think it's best to replace everything at the same time.

I managed to pick up an NOS pair of Ultegra 6500 brake calipers for £30 this morning. I know they are a few generations old, but will be massively better than the cheap Cannondale branded C4 callipers I currently have.

I've also managed to get a current gen Shimano 105 front mech for £10 off a forum member here, so I only need a few more bits to complete the parts list.