Aim........Fire..........Nearly.......

[fossyant]

Nearly......just nearly.....

Missed.....

Don't jump in front of an accelerating bloke on a fixed......... 12.5 stone at 20 mph will hurt, more than the following car would......

Thank god he stopped....... would have barged him with my good shoulder fortunately.....


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_r75e47KNw


Good stop though.....

 

[thomas]

As I said on the video, you saw them with plenty of time and could have easily have slowed down to let the pedestrian's cross. I couldn't care less if you had a green light, it wouldn't have hurt you to let them finish crossing, rather than forcing them to run out of the way.

It would have made your journey a couple seconds longer just to have been a bit more patient.

 

[potsy]

That's the 2nd ped you've nearly hit isn't it? You'll be getting an ASBO if you carry on like this
Thomas,fossy can't slow down he's a speed machine

 

[fossyant]

Full on acceleration, with the fixed wound up.....tricky stop........... as your hands aren't covering the brakes - i.e. gripping the hoods

We all make mistakes, could have backed off earlier, but he looked like he'd hang back as he saw me, then made the abortive dash.

I could have just about stopped...

 

[ianrauk]

Brown stained undies for that ped.

 

[thomas]

We all make mistakes, could have backed off earlier, but he looked like he'd hang back as he saw me, then made the abortive dash.

Certainly, I'm by no means perfect and may not have reacted perfectly either. Certainly, what I said is how I would hope I would have reacted.

Since walking to UNI (3 miles) a couple days a week, going into town on foot....some days walking about 12 miles, I've sort of grown an appreciation for how crap the roads can be for pedestrians. Certainly, with barriers and that stuff, if the roads were laid out similarly people would non-stop complain.

For instance, in Norwich city centre, there are a lot of Pedestrian lights at one point and they're quite poorly done. They'll be red for ages for pedestrians, to allow a couple of people in their cars through (maybe even a half empty bus)...rather than giving more priority to the 30 pedestrians who have to wait ages. It causes impatience in the peds, who go on a red man when it looks safe, just to find traffic to be coming out of some unexpected nook or cranny.

More should be done to encourage walking, and giving more rights over faster traffic would be a start. Don't have pedestrian lights which take a couple of minutes, etc.

 

[fossyant]

Thomas..with you there mate.......

I work in the University area, so know the movements of folk..... I catch bus rides and see the student cyclists from a bus passenger point of view.... OMG.........

I also ride my bike well away from the main student routes....... for work travel.... less trouble.......

Everything you say is spot on......not condoning anything....my little mishap is a well known junction, in a town centre, and a car up my arse..... never mind...

My mistake for accelerating....

 

[PBancroft]

For instance, in Norwich city centre, there are a lot of Pedestrian lights at one point and they're quite poorly done. They'll be red for ages for pedestrians, to allow a couple of people in their cars through (maybe even a half empty bus)...rather than giving more priority to the 30 pedestrians who have to wait ages. It causes impatience in the peds, who go on a red man when it looks safe, just to find traffic to be coming out of some unexpected nook or cranny.

Yup, Norwich is sh*t for pedestrians, which is odd because its one of those cities which was so obviously designed and built when the pedestrian was king.

(used to work there, and now have family in Wymondham).

 

[Browser]

I understand where you're coming from thomas, but had fossyant been a bus, truck or Saxo-with-a-stainless-dustbin-tailpipe-chav-transport coming towards them they'd never have set foot on the road. But (I suspect, anyway) because he was 'only a bike' they thought they'd chance it.
D'you mind me asking that, if the traffic lights are that bad in Norwich, you've tried writing to the bod in charge of it all at the town council to express your views?

 

[PBancroft]

Er no, you were not in the wrong at all. The attitude of some peds baffles me. They think they can cross the road in front of you just because you are a cyclist.

Your right of way.

Er no. Your priority. Slightly different terminology, but important.

The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance, but they advise you when you should give way to others. Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident.

 

[Origamist]

I understand where you're coming from thomas, but had fossyant been a bus, truck or Saxo-with-a-stainless-dustbin-tailpipe-chav-transport coming towards them they'd never have set foot on the road. But (I suspect, anyway) because he was 'only a bike' they thought they'd chance it.
D'you mind me asking that, if the traffic lights are that bad in Norwich, you've tried writing to the bod in charge of it all at the town council to express your views?

I've complained about the length of phasing of the green man at a local crossing. I got absolutely nowhere. I wish anyone else who tries this route the best of luck.

If anyone is interested TFL told me that they have been shortening the green phase and extending the black out phase before the red man. They said it had no statistically significant effect on safety (after a short trial) however, it feels less safe as the green man will vanish before you have crossed the road!

 

[thomas]

I understand where you're coming from thomas, but had fossyant been a bus, truck or Saxo-with-a-stainless-dustbin-tailpipe-chav-transport coming towards them they'd never have set foot on the road. But (I suspect, anyway) because he was 'only a bike' they thought they'd chance it.
D'you mind me asking that, if the traffic lights are that bad in Norwich, you've tried writing to the bod in charge of it all at the town council to express your views?

1). Completely wrong. From what I can make from the video, they were crossing before any cyclist would have been in view. They saw the cars indicating left, start to cross, then as they were already crossing a cyclist came into shot. I don't think this was a case of 'it's only a bike'. From what I can tell from the video, I would probably have been crossing then and I would not have run out of the way, be you a bike, car, bus or lorry.

2). I haven't no, but I'm not really sure how far it would get without some (expensive) redevelopment of the road space. Other than maybe making the lights phased, cars peds cars ped, rather than cars1 cars2 cars3 peds (as in the different directions that cars can come from), etc, which I doubt they'd do because who cares about pedestrians

I know there were plans on making Prince of Wales RD a car free zone at night, as it's the main clubbing area so there are obviously a lot of drunks (aka me ) running into the road . Some sort of shared space along 3 roads in the city could work well I think.

That would be St Stephens street which has popular shops on either side and a road in the middle. Joining them are raised pedestrian crossings. These give the idea that pedestrians should have some type of priority, but it only works if people let you across.

Next would be the road between M&S/Chapelfield into the other side of town towards the market. Not too bad to cross, but it would be nice if pedestrians had priority to cross over.

Thirdly, possibly something along the road outside the castle. It's got 2 sets of traffic lights and it's where a lot of buses drop and collect. The road here is basically 'owned' by bus drivers (so they think ).

Is it Germany where they have zones where pedestrians can basically do whatever they want without worrying? For instance, if you walked out in front of a car (1 foot away) and got hit, it would be the driver's fault. I think introducing something like that into certain areas would be a good thing for pedestrians. I'm by no means suggesting jumping out in front of cars, but certainly in slower speed zones and areas of high foot traffic, it'd be nice for pedestrians to have a priority and have drivers take a lot more care. My initial description probably hasn't sold it, so hopefully someone can come along and actually describe it properly

I've complained about the length of phasing of the green man at a local crossing. I got absolutely nowhere. I wish anyone else who tries this route the best of luck.

If anyone is interested TFL told me that they have been shortening the green phase and extending the black out phase before the red man. They said it had no statistically significant effect on safety (after a short trial) however, it feels less safe as the green man will vanish before you have crossed the road!

Shame about the phasings. Luckly there are only 2 crossings on my walk into UNI. One of them I don't use, as it would mean walking across three roads, rather than just one and using my eyes to see when it's safe to go. The other one doesn't take that long, but it'd be nice if it was instant as it gets a lot of foot traffic.

What I kind of dislike about your TFL study is that some people on the crossing will feel the need to run to the other side, so not to slow down motorised traffic. I just think that's quite sad tbh.

 

[Browser]

1). Completely wrong. From what I can make from the video, they were crossing before any cyclist would have been in view. They saw the cars indicating left, start to cross, then as they were already crossing a cyclist came into shot. I don't think this was a case of 'it's only a bike'. From what I can tell from the video, I would probably have been crossing then and I would not have run out of the way, be you a bike, car, bus or lorry.

I've just looked at the footage again. Fossy was following the orangey-coloured Nissan Almera, which turned left. As you say, the peds appeared to be crossing the road when Fossy entered the junction (I count crossing the stop line at the lights as 'entering the junction') but would they have continued if he were a car/motorbike?
They were crossing against the signals as well, assuming that the lights being green for vehicles means red for peds at this junction, so why were they even on the crossing? from what I can gather, you seem to be absolving them of the need to continue using their eyes/ears whilst crossing, which is of greater importance if chosing to 'chance it' on a red light.
I will say that Fossy could have rung his bell (and he has got one fitted as legally required haven't you Fossy! ) but many peds don't take this to mean 'heads up, cyclist approaching' but get the nark because they think you mean 'hey you, pedestrian, move out of my way!' so cyclists can refrain from using them for fear of offending someone.

2). I haven't no, but I'm not really sure how far it would get without some (expensive) redevelopment of the road space. Other than maybe making the lights phased, cars peds cars ped, rather than cars1 cars2 cars3 peds (as in the different directions that cars can come from), etc, which I doubt they'd do because who cares about pedestrians

You never know 'til you try! Maybe organise a petition, more voices should mean more volume.

I know there were plans on making Prince of Wales RD a car free zone at night, as it's the main clubbing area so there are obviously a lot of drunks (aka me ) running into the road .

So you are admitting that you have, on at least one occasion, heedless of personal safety and consequences and in a state of intoxication, stepped onto the highway without verifying it was safe to do so? What if you'd been coming on your bike (hard to do if you're the one stepping into the road, bear with me, it's an analogy ) and you'd stepped into the road in front of your bike, how would you have dealt with the situation?

Is it Germany where they have zones where pedestrians can basically do whatever they want without worrying? For instance, if you walked out in front of a car (1 foot away) and got hit, it would be the driver's fault. I think introducing something like that into certain areas would be a good thing for pedestrians. I'm by no means suggesting jumping out in front of cars, but certainly in slower speed zones and areas of high foot traffic, it'd be nice for pedestrians to have a priority and have drivers take a lot more care. My initial description probably hasn't sold it, so hopefully someone can come along and actually describe it properly

NO! We do NOT want a scheme like that here. Legislation which basically absolves peds of any responsibility for their personal safety when looking to cross the road? Madness!
Can you please confirm that you have never, ever, found yourself in a situation like Fossy i.e. ped crossing your path on collision course? If you have, what did you do?



Shame about the phasings. Luckly there are only 2 crossings on my walk into UNI. One of them I don't use, as it would mean walking across three roads, rather than just one and using my eyes to see when it's safe to go. The other one doesn't take that long, but it'd be nice if it was instant as it gets a lot of foot traffic.

What I kind of dislike about your TFL study is that some people on the crossing will feel the need to run to the other side, so not to slow down motorised traffic. I just think that's quite sad tbh.[/QUOTE]

 

[Origamist]

What I kind of dislike about your TFL study is that some people on the crossing will feel the need to run to the other side, so not to slow down motorised traffic. I just think that's quite sad tbh.

Indeed, it's some of the most vulnerable pedestrians - the elderly and physically challenged that suffer the most when attempts are made to "smooth traffic flow".

 

[thomas]

Browser, my basic principle is that pedestrians should be given a lot more respect, on and around the roads than they have at the moment. Giving peds the ability to get around that bit easier, to help promote walking and to make motorised traffic (and cycles) a bit more tolerant. With the German (y?) system, you obviously don't seem to like the idea, but like I said, I haven't done my job at selling it. If I was walking on a pavement, I wouldn't be paying lots of attention to cars about to jump up on the pavement to park. I shouldn't need to. The idea is much more of a massive pedestrianised area.

I'll try to answer your questions, sorry if I miss any

As you say, the peds appeared to be crossing the road when Fossy entered the junction (I count crossing the stop line at the lights as 'entering the junction') but would they have continued if he were a car/motorbike?

Something you'd have to ask the peds tbh. I would like to think that any motorised traffic would ease off to not cause them problems, however if they weren't to slow down a fight or flight response would probably set in and yes, they would probably jump out of the way of a moron about to run them over.

They were crossing against the signals as well, assuming that the lights being green for vehicles means red for peds at this junction, so why were they even on the crossing?

Because thankfully they are allowed to cross when safe and therefore allowed on the junction, no matter what the red man says.

you seem to be absolving them of the need to continue using their eyes/ears whilst crossing, which is of greater importance if chosing to 'chance it' on a red light.

I'm not absolving them, though this situation is very simple to avoid. I'm by no means saying don't pay attention when crossing the road, but suggesting that it isn't that hard for traffic to use their eyes and ears to look out for pedestrians.

and he has got one fitted as legally required haven't you Fossy! )

Only legal required at point of sale. When actually cycling you need a method of alerting others, and a voice is good enough for that....though an airzound can be another good choice

You never know 'til you try! Maybe organise a petition, more voices should mean more volume.

I'll be honest, it isn't the sort of thing I have the time for. I'm also not so bothered about it that I'm going to do a whole lot more than just whine on forums

So you are admitting that you have, on at least one occasion, heedless of personal safety and consequences and in a state of intoxication, stepped onto the highway without verifying it was safe to do so? What if you'd been coming on your bike (hard to do if you're the one stepping into the road, bear with me, it's an analogy ) and you'd stepped into the road in front of your bike, how would you have dealt with the situation?

Okay, the drunk bit was a joke. I'd say in general my road sense stays with me when drunk, however for a lot of people it goes out the window. Now, as far as I'm aware, shutting this road between say 10 till 4 in the morning wouldn't cause massive disruptions but (perceived*) safety would go up. There may need to be some exception for taxis/buses, but hopefully there could be ways of limiting this or giving them alternative routes/places to pick up fares.

If, however I did run out in front of someone, such as a bike and was hit, I'd like to think that I would react in a good manner. Make sure they're okay, offer my details for any damage costs to the bike, etc. I hope that this never happens and I don't believe it would.

Certainly, what would be wrong with a system where drivers/cyclists have to pay that extra bit of attention to that drunk about to run out in front of them? A legal onus would be good....but personally, if I was driving down Prince of Wales at night I'd take it easy because right or wrong, I don't want to be scraping bit of body up. Shame that many people don't have that attitude (or at least aren't observant enough to avoid these situation).

*I've no actual idea if anyone has been hurt or injured here, but certainly it would remove any risk.

Can you please confirm that you have never, ever, found yourself in a situation like Fossy i.e. ped crossing your path on collision course? If you have, what did you do?

I can give you a video if you'd like ?


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nheudwJhuXg


I don't feel that my reaction was an over reaction. I noticed in advanced, tried whistling to gain attention (which didn't work) so gave a light tap of the airzound. I could of yelled 'careful' or something, but at least with the air horn it sounds more like a car.

My reaction here is obviously different to this German idea I've mentioned. If that was enforced in this area (hypothetically), then I'd of slowed down/come to a crawl or stop so the ped could cross. Very simple

In the OPs video, I'd of probably eased off so not to cause a problem, or cycled behind them. Though, I accept the OP was on a fixed, car close behind, etc, which obviously means it's easy to say how to do something, than it can be to do it.

I'd say I've grown a lot more tolerant of pedestrians since I've started walking soo much. Thankfully I found out about some secure bike parking in Norwich so I can now cycle to do my shopping, rather than a 30 min (1.5 mile) walk home, with a very heavy rucksack and bags that are about to split. In the past I may have become easily annoyed but I think my attitude of just calming down, giving pedestrians that bit more time and care is a good attitude to have.

Gotta remember....that ped you make run out of your way may well be walking back to a car park. Wouldn't be so funny when they pass you with inches to spare.

Also, could I have your opinion on how I crossed the road here:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9VJuqKkMRU


Safe or unsafe? Any other points?

Indeed, it's some of the most vulnerable pedestrians - the elderly and physically challenged that suffer the most when attempts are made to "smooth traffic flow".

Certainly.