"Airnimals" look straight out of scrapheap challenge

bonj2

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continued from
http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=598&page=10

Flying_Monkey said:
Bonj - the extent to which you will make yourself look like an idiot never ceases to amaze...

You may well not like the look of the Airnimal. But apart from that you know nothing about it (or about bikes in general by the sound of it), but you're doing your usual thing of taking a prejudice and to retrospectively make it sound like this was the outcome of some rational thinking.

You'd really do better if you just asked some questions politely some times. Like, 'that's an unusual bike, not sure I like the look of it, but can you tell me more about it?'

And yes, it does make a difference it you've actually ridden one... obviously.
The same tired old mantras "you make yourself look an idiot", "you're prejudiced", "you're irrational" - change the record.

I've asked questions which still haven't been answered, namely (1) surely the distance the handlebars stick out from the stem, and the length the steerer tube extends above the headset causes a much higher than normal forward and downwards moment about the headset, putting much higher bending stress on the steerer tube, and (2) if they're any good why aren't they more popular?
 
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bonj2

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Yorkshireman said:
Bonj, do me the honour of reading my post if you can't be @rsed to click the link (the one thats three or four above this one), the one that states "Improved traction - the wheels do not bounce going through corners or on rough surfaces" near the end. If you can't be bothered to at least make an effort to inform yourself when you're supplied with the information (or the means to obtain it) Shut Up :thumbsup:
Yeah yeah yeah, I get the gist of it - somebody's done scientific research to prove using physics that smaller wheels theoretically have advantages.
But please answer me the question of why bikes in the tour de france don't have casters then?
Why aren't 22" wheels more popular on road bikes, if they're that good?
You can link to all the equations in the world if you want, but it still doesn't make sense if no-one uses it! There must be some reason why there's a difference between theory and practice.
 
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bonj2

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Bonj

1)You did physics (apparently). You know how strong metal is. you tell us.
OK. It will bend the steerer tube fractionally, but under normal riding won't be enough to break it. But surely it's better not to have that bending stress if you can avoid it. I would imagine the slight bending will cause the headset bearings to wear fractionally faster.
2) Recumbents are very good. They're not popular.
WHY, though?!
And under what grounds are they 'very good'?
 
bonj said:
Yeah yeah yeah, I get the gist of it - somebody's done scientific research to prove using physics that smaller wheels theoretically have advantages.
But please answer me the question of why bikes in the tour de france don't have casters then?
Why aren't 22" wheels more popular on road bikes, if they're that good?
You can link to all the equations in the world if you want, but it still doesn't make sense if no-one uses it! There must be some reason why there's a difference between theory and practice.
Bonj.
In all good faith I posted a link to a site that deals exclusively with the machine in question, and the man who designs and builds them. I also posted extracts from the site that covered some of the areas that you appear to be lacking information/knowledge in. It's obvious (to me anyway) that you have no real interest in this subject other than to try to take the piss from those of us who are prepared to take you seriously, so I won't waste any more of my time. I'll leave you with a short resume of Dr Alex Moulton's work and qualifications :-

Dr Alex Moulton CBE RDI FEng
Dr Moulton is an outstanding British Engineer whose whole professional life has been devoted to research, development, design and manufacture of advanced innovative products for sale in world markets.
His successful designs, which have been commercially exploited in world-wide markets including Japan, Germany, Switzerland, the USA and the UK include:

Flexitor
Rubber Suspension for Mini car
Hydrolastic Suspension for BL110 car
Revolutionary Moulton Bicycle
Moulton Safety Coach
hydragas Suspension for Allegro and Princess cars
The Alex Moulton Bicycle
hydragas Suspension for Rover Metro
(Awarded Royal Academy of Engineering MacRobert Award)
The Moulton APB Bicycle
1957
1959
1962
1962
1969
1973/5
1983
1990

1992
Dr Moulton's Achievements have received recognition in many ways:
CBE
The Diploma di Medagli d'Oro, Milan
Queen's Award for Technical Innovation
Honorary Doctorate, Royal college of Art
Elected to the Faculty of Royal Designers for Industry
Honorary DSc, University of Bath
Elected a Fellow of The Royal Academy of Engineering
(Subsequently Vice President 1985-88)
Elected Master of the Faculty of Royal Designers for Industry
Hon DSc, Cranfield University 1976
1964
1967
1967
1968
1971
1980

1981-83
1994
Dr Moulton has had, and continues to exert a major influence on British engineering design technique.
 
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bonj2

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Yorkshireman said:
Bonj.
In all good faith I posted a link to a site that deals exclusively with the machine in blah blah blah

Great. The only new information there is that that website was written by the designer of that bike, about that particular bike. Well he would claim it's the best thing since sliced bread, wouldn't he - if he's designed it.

Why aren't they more popular then, if they're that good? Post more statistics if you like - I'll only keep asking the same question, so you might aswell at least try to answer it.
 
Bonj.
I'll admit to anyone that I'm not the sharpest knife in the box, but even at my fairly advanced age I'm still eager to learn. I believe I have learned something to-day ... I thought that you played the fool/cretin for a laugh ... now I realise that you're not playing ....:thumbsup:
 
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bonj2

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So you can't answer the question - so we're all agreed then. They're crap.
But oh no! Hang on! There's scientific evidence that smaller wheels are better than larger ones! Who can argue with scientific evidence? So, there can only be one explanation - the people who ride bikes with small wheels must be the ENGLIGHTENED ONES!
 
bonj said:
So you can't answer the question - so we're all agreed then. They're crap.
But oh no! Hang on! There's scientific evidence that smaller wheels are better than larger ones! Who can argue with scientific evidence? So, there can only be one explanation - the people who ride bikes with small wheels must be the ENGLIGHTENED ONES!
If you're asking me Bonj ... Which question were you directing at me? Regarding smaller V larger wheels, it's horses for courses. Lots of people are able to argue with scientific evidence (providing that they look at it). The people who ride bikes with small wheels are the people who choose to ride them for a particular reason/purpose ... Next.
And where did you go just now ... sneaking off for warm milk and biccies ... without offering em round :thumbsup:
 
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bonj2

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Yorkshireman said:
If you're asking me Bonj ... Which question were you directing at me?
Why smaller wheels aren't more popular on non-folding bikes if they're that good.
 
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bonj2

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Yorkshireman said:
Haven't a clue Bonj ... It's not a question I have had reason/interest to research. I don't know why Marmite isn't more popular than it is either. :thumbsup:
Marmite is quite popular. Popular enough to be sold in pretty much every supermarket, spar and corner shop.
 
bonj said:
Marmite is quite popular. Popular enough to be sold in pretty much every supermarket, spar and corner shop.
Right Bonj, just been shopping (on the small wheeled non-folding shopper), and yes I did see Marmite on the shelf. I asked one of the store supervisors (the lengths I go to to educate the younger generation) what the turnover was like for that particular delicacy ... She replied "Very, very slow ... Don't Know why we stock it, but it's very long dated". Whilst at the supermarket I checked the bike racks ... Out of 30 bikes that I saw 10 were 'small' wheelers' of varying types. On the way back home I called in at the LBS and guess what ... they had 4 'small' wheelers on the shop floor display, and are able and prepared to order others if required. Now whether these observations/results are peculiar to my area or not I don't know, neither do I know if they are significant in any way nor do I rally care.:thumbsup:
 

Flying_Monkey

Toll Collector on the Road to Nowhere
bonj said:
continued from
http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=598&page=10



The same tired old mantras "you make yourself look an idiot", "you're prejudiced", "you're irrational" - change the record.

I've asked questions which still haven't been answered,
Yes, but only some time after wading in with an opinion that was based almost entirely on ignorance (you didn't know what the bike was, why it was made the way it was etc.). In other words you tried to pretend you had some rational basis for what was basis for what amounted to nothing more than laughing and pointing.

Please do us a favour, and go do some of your own research on folding bikes, and on the Airnimal. It's no particular fun discussing with someone who is not interested in learning.

And, BTW, small-wheeled bikes are specifically banned by the UCI in road cycling events... something you could also easily look up yourself.
 
I tour with an Airnimal because it carries full panniers, and I can clear my heels.

It is a proven design, and an adaptation of a geometry which goes back as far as the 1920s with the straight tube. It is fast, comfortable and safe with common sense.

By that I mean if set up properly - in the same way as leaving the nuts on a car wheel undone is unsafe. The QR and pivot on the seat stem is solid and does not move or flex. The same applies to the bottom bracket.

Suspension is not really an advantage at this level as it does not compress that much, but does smooth out rough surfaces on 25mm tyres at 100 psi!

For folding - typically I look at the trains. Sensible companies like SCotrail and Virgin no problem. Those with stupid policies and poor allowance for space - a minute to fold and a minute to unfold is shorter than the time taken to argue with the train staff!
 
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