All the symptoms of a frayed gear cable but...

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

OK needing some assistance.... I have all the symptoms of a frayed gear cable (again ) but having looked at the cable, it is not frayed at all. It is not rusty, it is still well lubed, and actually looks like it is new, which is a real shame because I went out and bought 2 new ones yesterday completely convinced I knew what the problem was! So I am at a loss again...

Cassette has done around 3,000km, new chain 500km ago. Both are kept clean to the point you can see it was a silver cassette etc - washed and lubed after each ride (necessary because of the lane I live down). Cassette really does not worn but I do have a spare one just in case.

Symptoms: slipping gears on any chainring but usually the same 3 or 4 sprockets on cassette & temperamental gear changes (sometimes happens, sometimes does not, sometimes needs 2 up 1 down just to get to 1 up etc), stiff switch on the right shifter in certain gears only (and not always either) and often the lever is not returning to the vertical position....

 

[raleighnut]

OK needing some assistance.... I have all the symptoms of a frayed gear cable (again ) but having looked at the cable, it is not frayed at all. It is not rusty, it is still well lubed, and actually looks like it is new, which is a real shame because I went out and bought 2 new ones yesterday completely convinced I knew what the problem was! So I am at a loss again...

Cassette has done around 3,000km, new chain 500km ago. Both are kept clean to the point you can see it was a silver cassette etc - washed and lubed after each ride (necessary because of the lane I live down). Cassette really does not worn but I do have a spare one just in case.

Symptoms: slipping gears on any chainring but usually the same 3 or 4 sprockets on cassette & temperamental gear changes (sometimes happens, sometimes does not, sometimes needs 2 up 1 down just to get to 1 up etc), stiff switch on the right shifter in certain gears only (and not always either) and often the lever is not returning to the vertical position....

Are you sure its not just a build up of muck on the reverse of the rear mech (where the springs are) give that a good clean and lube, Best done with the chain off then try firing the shifter up and down without refitting the chain if its still sticky its the lever assy.

 

[L14M]

Are you sure its not just a build up of muck on the reverse of the rear mech (where the springs are) give that a good clean and lube, Best done with the chain off then try firing the shifter up and down without refitting the chain if its still sticky its the lever assy.

Check for crap getting inbetween the parts of the spring too!
Liam

 

[potsy]

Maybe the outer cable?
Worth trying a new one if only to rule it out.

 

[Broadside]

Have you checked the cable guide under the bottom bracket? Sometimes worth giving it a good wash and then dribble some light oil on it to keep the cable moving through freely.

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

Maybe the outer cable?
Worth trying a new one if only to rule it out.

it had new outer less than 3 months ago when the cable snapped on me...

Have you checked the cable guide under the bottom bracket? Sometimes worth giving it a good wash and then dribble some light oil on it to keep the cable moving through freely.

that's all clear - something I keep a check on given the crap on the lane I live down...

Are you sure its not just a build up of muck on the reverse of the rear mech (where the springs are) give that a good clean and lube, Best done with the chain off then try firing the shifter up and down without refitting the chain if its still sticky its the lever assy.

Check for crap getting inbetween the parts of the spring too!
Liam

I will double check the spring on the rear mech, it was about my only assumption now... I do wash it down often but I guess it could be needing a better wash. Will let you all know how it goes...

thanks
SNSSO

 

[Nigeyy]

Which gears are slipping? It could be your cable has stretched a little (which is normal for a new cable) and that would seem to be indicated by your need to go up 2 sometimes to get to that higher gear (assuming "higher" here is your bigger rear cogs). But if there are temperamental changes all through the gears that could mean a worn chain/worn cassette (which based on your mileage it should be ok but it depends what kind of dirt and grime it gets which is based on where and which conditions you cycle in).

The other culprit apart from a worn derailleur spring could be your shifter -not sure which you have based on your description. From your description, my first suspicion would be a stretched cable.

OK needing some assistance.... I have all the symptoms of a frayed gear cable (again ) but having looked at the cable, it is not frayed at all. It is not rusty, it is still well lubed, and actually looks like it is new, which is a real shame because I went out and bought 2 new ones yesterday completely convinced I knew what the problem was! So I am at a loss again...

Cassette has done around 3,000km, new chain 500km ago. Both are kept clean to the point you can see it was a silver cassette etc - washed and lubed after each ride (necessary because of the lane I live down). Cassette really does not worn but I do have a spare one just in case.

Symptoms: slipping gears on any chainring but usually the same 3 or 4 sprockets on cassette & temperamental gear changes (sometimes happens, sometimes does not, sometimes needs 2 up 1 down just to get to 1 up etc), stiff switch on the right shifter in certain gears only (and not always either) and often the lever is not returning to the vertical position....

 

[Cubist]

A final possibility is the routing of the inner cable around the rear mech and into the clamp. It's easy to get it the wrong way round, and that results in incorrect pull for the mech.

 

[young Ed]

stretched cable or out of adjustment gears is what i would check for
Cheers Ed

 

[boydj]

Disconnect the cable from the mech and move the gear lever while holding the end of the cable. This will let you know if the cable is moving freely. 3000km is not a huge distance for a cassette, but given the muddy conditions that you ride you'll probably get higher than average wear on chain and cassette, so I think the likeliest problem is a worn cassette.

I know from commuting in all weathers that chains would do well to last 1000 miles and 3 chains to a cassette would be normal, provided the chains were changed before they were too worn.

 

[Dangermouse]

Have you got the correct chain...........if its say, only ok for up to a 7 speed cassette then it wont sit on the gears right if using a 9/10 speed cassette, shops have been known to supply the wrong gear out............go on ask me how I know

 

[raleighnut]

it had new outer less than 3 months ago when the cable snapped on me...

that's all clear - something I keep a check on given the crap on the lane I live down...


I will double check the spring on the rear mech, it was about my only assumption now... I do wash it down often but I guess it could be needing a better wash. Will let you all know how it goes...

thanks
SNSSO

Having had a bit more of a think there could be another culprit, A little known detail of Shimano indexing is that the top jockey wheel has about 1 mm of lateral "float" engineered into it and its easy to get muck into that at times. If you do remove the jockeys to clean them be aware that they are different and that the bottom wheel does not have this . I found out this little known Factoid when I fitted mine the wrong way round after cleaning/regreasing them and was told by 2 shops that the mech was "knackered mate" however the 3rd shop the mechanic asked if I'd got them the right way round and guess what!
This slight lateral movement is what prevents the side plates of the chain riding up and onto the top of the teeth and you can probably guess which shop now gets my hardearned beer vouchers.

 

[young Ed]

Have you got the correct chain...........if its say, only ok for up to a 7 speed cassette then it wont sit on the gears right if using a 9/10 speed cassette, shops have been known to supply the wrong gear out............go on ask me how I know

oh go on i'm dying to know over here! how do you know the wrong chain matters???

Having had a bit more of a think there could be another culprit, A little known detail of Shimano indexing is that the top jockey wheel has about 1 mm of lateral "float" engineered into it and its easy to get muck into that at times. If you do remove the jockeys to clean them be aware that they are different and that the bottom wheel does not have this . I found out this little known Factoid when I fitted mine the wrong way round after cleaning/regreasing them and was told by 2 shops that the mech was "knackered mate" however the 3rd shop the mechanic asked if I'd got them the right way round and guess what!
This slight lateral movement is what prevents the side plates of the chain riding up and onto the top of the teeth and you can probably guess which shop now gets my hardearned beer vouchers.

easy, do it like me i remove and do one jockey wheel and then re-install it with new grease and all and then do the next one
you always have one jockey wheel in the mech and you don't mix them up
Cheers Ed

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

Cable stretch is a possibility but the issues only occur in the middle of the (8 speed) cassette and I wasn't expecting to have a really stiff switch to fight with for that kind of issue, nor the non-returning lever. (It's a red Triban 3 so think ottomy that that is Shimano 2300 sora sti levers). The chain is an 8 speed chain (SRAM PC-850 chain & SRAM PG-850 cassette 11-28). I don't cross the chain (too much ) so on the smallest chainring only the largest 4 sprockets get used (unless I am trying to replicate this issue), the middle chainring I will use 5-6 of the sprockets (remember I am partially paralysed and do struggle to chain gear with my left hand) and the largest chainring only generally gets the smallest 3 sprockets used).

Jockey wheels are the correct way around - they do get cleaned when I do the chain because they get exceptionally mucky, usually by pinching them on either side as I spin the pedals. Maybe not the best option, but seems to work.

I haven't had the cable off since the gears were re-indexed 2 months ago, and the cable routes into the RD the same way as before, so hopefully (fingers crossed they are fine ).

When I bought the gear cables on Thursday my LBS (local is a misnomer here but he's a very helpful guy, but only does road bikes!) double checked with me on the symptoms and he too thought the most likely cause was a frayed gear cable, but he is rather busy at the moment and it would have been a leave the bike with me job, great except I had cycled there and its my only transport home and my only transport during the week and I am not yet able (or willing) to walk the 6.5 miles home again in lycra!

I'll look at the RD and jockey wheels this pm and see if I can get some piccies up.

thanks everyone.

 

[Nigeyy]

Raleighnut, thanks for that, I didn't know that -you live and learn!

Having had a bit more of a think there could be another culprit, A little known detail of Shimano indexing is that the top jockey wheel has about 1 mm of lateral "float" engineered into it and its easy to get muck into that at times. If you do remove the jockeys to clean them be aware that they are different and that the bottom wheel does not have this . I found out this little known Factoid when I fitted mine the wrong way round after cleaning/regreasing them and was told by 2 shops that the mech was "knackered mate" however the 3rd shop the mechanic asked if I'd got them the right way round and guess what!
This slight lateral movement is what prevents the side plates of the chain riding up and onto the top of the teeth and you can probably guess which shop now gets my hardearned beer vouchers.