are rubbish! Don't why i bought then to rebuild my back wheel. They were available at my LBS, so i got them. Truing and dishing the wheel last night and some of the nipples on the drive side, that have a higher tension, look like they been through the wars. One of the ends of the nipple, where you wrap the spoke key around, broke off from the rest of the nipple when i was loosing it. I think i hit the end of the thread and when i went the other way it just snapped. So the wheel is 1/4 turn from being the straightess (is that a word) its ever been. Only steel from now on.