Aluminium or Reynolds 520 butted Cr-Mo

[Summerking]

Thanks for the reply with quotes Greg, I appreciate that you think otherwise with regards Aluminium V Steel, that you have 'all too often' read opinions like mine before is because there IS a difference and we have noticed it,so much so that many people I know will only ride steel. Aluminium frames are noticeably stiffer and are often modified with the addition of carbon parts to alleviate this harshness, if modern advances rendered frame material choice a moot point then there would be no need for carbon stays, forks or otherwise.

 

[Rob3rt]

When people say "aluminium bikes are stiffer" etc. You have to question, is this a good thing or a bad thing.

Now, stiffness is a desirable frame quality in terms of power transfer, it is a desirable frame quality in terms of road feedback, it is an undesirable feature in terms of "comfort", IF we consider a frame which is designed to offer only stiffness or compliance.

The reality is that (good) frames are engineered so as to be stiff where it is desirable, i.e. laterally, limiting the flex around the bottom bracket, head tube and rear triangle, yet compliant vertically, i.e. in the seat stays in order to offer a degree of comfort.

These features can be engineered into frames made from steel, titanium, alu or carbon. You will tend to find some materials lend themselves better to certain features, but that is not to say they possess all of one, and none of the other, i.e. you can get comfortable aluminium bikes, and you can get stiff as hell steel bikes!

 

[fossala]

I'd love to read about a controlled blind test using a well designed well engineered ali frame of equivalent quality/geometry to the steel one, swapping the same bars, stem, seat post, wheels, tyres, fork, saddle, between the two, riding over the same roads 'blind' et cetera, et cetera. All to often I read about subjective comparisons of aluminium apples with a sublime steel satsumas.

My own conclusion is that a well designed bike well matched to the riding you want to do on it with well engineered frame that fits the rider properly renders the choice of frame material pretty moot these days, and the differences are most likely less sublime than subliminal.

Aluminium fatigues badly. To make this not happen, you make the metal not bend by employing large non-flexing tubes, hence the stiffness. Because steel doesn't fatigue in the same way, you can make something with a bit more give without worrying about the life of the metal.

This is why I don't like the thought that if you built it with the same geometry it would be the same, the metals mean it can't if you want a half decent life out of your bike.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Aluminium fatigues badly.

Someone better tell the aerospace industry.

This is why I don't like the thought that if you built it with the same geometry it would be the same, the metals mean it can't if you want a half decent life out of your bike.

Geometry has got nowt to do with tube sizes of tube will thickness. Geometry is about the relative positions of things. I can separate two objects in identical positions by a variety of tubes. If I built two bikes with markedly different geometries from the same Reynolds tubesets they would ride and feel quite different to one another, even though the frame material is identical. Bikes of different sizes made of identical tubesets, something the 'better' framemakers don't do of course, feel different and ride differently.

 

[fossala]

Someone better tell the aerospace industry.


Geometry has got nowt to do with tube sizes of tube will thickness. Geometry is about the relative positions of things. I can separate two objects in identical positions by a variety of tubes. If I built two bikes with markedly different geometries from the same Reynolds tubesets they would ride and feel quite different to one another, even though the frame material is identical. Bikes of different sizes made of identical tubesets, something the 'better' framemakers don't do of course, feel different and ride differently.

Something tells me NASA already knows, they don't use their ships for years and I guess the don't want too much give in them anyway.

I also know geomentry has nothing to do with the thickness of the tubes, but if you have large tubes, they will flex less and give a more uncomfortable ride.

I'm not saying aluminium doesn't have it's merits and it's use cases but comfort isn't one of them.

EDIT: I'm also getting sick of this forum, someone asks a question, I give my opinion, my opinion get's attacked because it's not exactly the same as someone elses. I ride a bike because it's fun, I just wish other people would treat bikes/bike topics in the same way.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Thanks for the reply with quotes Greg, I appreciate that you think otherwise with regards Aluminium V Steel, that you have 'all too often' read opinions like mine before is because there IS a difference and we have noticed it,so much so that many people I know will only ride steel. Aluminium frames are noticeably stiffer and are often modified with the addition of carbon parts to alleviate this harshness, if modern advances rendered frame material choice a moot point then there would be no need for carbon stays, forks or otherwise.

Sweeping generalisation.

I have a steel framed bike that is stiffer than a very stiff thing, so much it beats me up when I ride it.
I have a steel framed bike that flexes like a tree in a breeze such that the brake rub when honking drives me nuts.
I have an ali framed bike that is very plush and good for very long rides e.g. 350km in one go.
I have an ali framed bike that is brutally rigid, but very light, but I don't mind as it has fat tyres and suspension at one end.
et cetera
et cetera

As to these steel "I simply can't ride anything else" snobs; I take it they rather ride unbutted Hi-ten than Ali then?
And are too poor to ride Ti?

The frame material just isn't the big deal folk make it out to be ime. Stiff in the right places is good. Stiff in the wrong places is bad. Any frame material can be built into a frame that is appropriately compliant. ymmv.

 

[Summerking]

I see that you have taken a conversation between adults back to the playground Greg, with regards my first post you quoted it in it's entirety without once referring to me, ostensibly to isolate my view as a curious specimen, you then went on to place your single opinion against the opinions that you 'all too often read' about, implying the weight of your own argument negates the opinions of many, and then back up this flagrant self aggrandisement with the bizzare assumption that modern advances in technology render frame material a moot point. No one has so far attempted to run your opinion into worthlessness they way you have with mine and to prove the sheer arrogance of your outlook you have now descended into abuse and mockery, my second post is now 'sweeping generalisation' I must appreciate how good it is of you to spare me the two words, then you imply I and others with a different opinion to you are in fact 'snobs' I must confess to reading that twice to believe you had gone that low and your final riposte from on high is to tell us we are 'too poor to ride Ti'. Tell me where do you get off talking to me and others like this? do you manage your contact with others in real life like this? I doubt it. Inflated self worth that descends into insults is really rather worrying and best left in the aforementioned playground.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I see that you have taken a conversation between adults back to the playground Greg, with regards my first post you quoted it in it's entirety without once referring to me, ostensibly to isolate my view as a curious specimen, you then went on to place your single opinion against the opinions that you 'all too often read' about, implying the weight of your own argument negates the opinions of many, and then back up this flagrant self aggrandisement with the bizzare assumption that modern advances in technology render frame material a moot point. No one has so far attempted to run your opinion into worthlessness they way you have with mine and to prove the sheer arrogance of your outlook you have now descended into abuse and mockery, my second post is now 'sweeping generalisation' I must appreciate how good it is of you to spare me the two words, then you imply I and others with a different opinion to you are in fact 'snobs' I must confess to reading that twice to believe you had gone that low and your final riposte from on high is to tell us we are 'too poor to ride Ti'. Tell me where do you get off talking to me and others like this? do you manage your contact with others in real life like this? I doubt it. Inflated self worth that descends into insults is really rather worrying and best left in the aforementioned playground.

:troll: or or

Not sure which.

 

[Summerking]

:troll: or or

Not sure which.[/quote]
not sure about what? that you are in fact childish? let me assure you that you are, I hate to see confusion around the obvious

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Summerking, get over yourself. (and learn to use the quote function properly.)

 

[Summerking]

Summerking, get over yourself. (and learn to use the quote function properly.)

is there no end to your endearments?. Sir, I find you fatuous and blinkered. Good day.

 

[samsbike]

Its a bit of a cop-out, but I dont think you can go wrong with either. Test drive both and see what you like the most. Bet the langster feels more lively though.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

is there no end to your endearments?. Sir, I find you fatuous and blinkered. Good day.

Am I meant to feel something?

 

[Phixion]

Now all we need is the bike manufacturers to actually make some affordable (<£600) steel bikes.