An accident waiting to happen

[JoshM]

So it's an overkill for pedestrians but not for cyclists? They both use the same roads (when crossing or cycling). Both are vulnerable to the same cars. Yet you apply the logic to cyclists and not to pedestrians of 'anything I can do to help'. Why is that?

Of course the problem with this is that cyclists will be deemed at fault for not being lit up like a Christmas tree and protected from head to foot in armour - something that only cyclists seem to have to do and nobody else.

I don't see many walkers walking in the traffic lane as cyclists do, so to me the risks are slightly different. You're less likely to be hit by a driver when on the pavement in a well lit area than you are when on a dark country lane. I also don't see many walkers/runners on dark country lanes, and those that I do are often lit up. Indeed when I run at night along quiet country lanes apart from the helmet I wear much the same kind of attire. Including a head torch. Though I made no mention of helmets in my original post except to say I wear one.

I'll also say again I don't apply any logic to anyone other than myself. I've decided on what works for me. I've no problem with anyone else coming to different conclusions. The important thing to me is that you're comfortable with the decisions you make regarding your safety. I certainly don't require you to be lit up like a Christmas tree and wearing armour head to foot. I don't believe that me choosing to wear light clothing (I never said i wear hi vizs) and use lights takes any choice away from you. Drivers can prefer easily seen cyclists all they like, you're still not required to be overtly visible.

I accept that you for example like in London, and thus the roads are likely to be well lit vastly reducing the benefit of light clothing and lights in terms of being seen, which is very different to my riding experiences in semi rural Fife where I mostly ride on unlit back roads, where there is perhaps a greater benefit to wearing light clothing and lights. Perhaps my experiences with drivers may also be different.

 

[John the Monkey]

When I learned to drive, I was taught that people, and possible hazards in the road were harder to see when visibility was poor.

I was also taught that wet conditions meant that I had less time to react to any hazard.

Oddly, the conclusion drawn, in those far off times, was that it was wise for me, as a driver, to pay more attention, and to slow down such that you'd be able to stop, or take evasive action safely. This seemed unremarkable, although it was a time when I didn't see little kids kitted out in hi-vis tabards just to walk to the local takeaway with their folks, admittedly.

 

[mjr]

You're less likely to be hit by a driver when on the pavement in a well lit area than you are when on a dark country lane.

According to Recorded Road Casualties (RRCGB), 6 pedestrians were killed on the pavement in lit areas in 2015, while 29 were killed on dark unlit rural carriageways.

I don't believe that me choosing to wear light clothing (I never said i wear hi vizs) and use lights takes any choice away from you.

I do. I feel that each person wearing it makes it more likely that any non-confirmists will be seen as negligent in a collision.

 

[JoshM]

According to Recorded Road Casualties (RRCGB), 6 pedestrians were killed on the pavement in lit areas in 2015, while 29 were killed on dark unlit rural carriageways.


I do. I feel that each person wearing it makes it more likely that any non-confirmists will be seen as negligent in a collision.

So I should be made to change what I wear to ensure you're allowed to wear what you want? I wear what makes me feel safe and comfortable on the roads I ride. I don't do so in an attempt to force others to-do the same. I can't control how other people view my behaviour, nor can I control how people react to you based on my behaviour unless I change my behaviour.

In fact despite choosing to wear a helmet myself I will argue with anyone who says cyclists should wear them. I believe that as adults we all have to make our own decisions regarding our safety.

 

[mjr]

So I should be made to change what I wear to ensure you're allowed to wear what you want? I wear what makes me feel safe and comfortable on the roads I ride. I don't do so in an attempt to force others to-do the same.

And yet, the road to hell/compulsion is paved with such good intentions.

I will argue with anyone who says cyclists should wear them. I believe that as adults we all have to make our own decisions regarding our safety.

I hope that's enough but I fear it is not, so I do feel that it's irresponsible of cyclists to take part in a lighting arms race that we cannot win and to suggest that "stopping further up the road and respectfully have a quiet word with him about how hard it was to see him" might be a good reaction to bad driving.

 

[marknotgeorge]

I've often wondered what duty of care, if any, Newsagents have to ensure the paperboys and girls have lights on their bikes.

Probably roughly feck all, like it's normally the drivers who get fined and pointed for speeding and parking offences effectively outsourced to them by unrealistic delivery schedules of some companies.

When I was a paperboy, none of the rounds needed to be done on a bike, it was personal choice. The emo who used to deliver our morning paper didn't ride a bike either (he might still deliver it - the paper's there when I leave the house just recently, so I haven't seen who delivers it). I don't think there's the same delivery pressures with papers as with parcels.

 

[Bazzer]

According to Recorded Road Casualties (RRCGB), 6 pedestrians were killed on the pavement in lit areas in 2015, while 29 were killed on dark unlit rural carriageways.


I do. I feel that each person wearing it makes it more likely that any non-confirmists will be seen as negligent in a collision.

Indeed. When I was involved in a collision with a car a couple or so years ago, (driver was a filter lane jumper), one of the questions asked on the form from Greater Manchester police was whether I was wearing any hi viz clothing. The question had no relevance so far as I was concerned.
What next? You were riding a black bike which blended in with the tarmac..

 

[JoshM]

And yet, the road to hell/compulsion is paved with such good intentions.


I hope that's enough but I fear it is not, so I do feel that it's irresponsible of cyclists to take part in a lighting arms race that we cannot win and to suggest that "stopping further up the road and respectfully have a quiet word with him about how hard it was to see him" might be a good reaction to bad driving.

Can't you see the irony of wanting to dictate what I wear in order to give you the freedom to wear what you want?

Also for the record, I have one light front and back, I wear a yellow jersey, and bibs with reflective stripes on them. I'm hardly taking part in a lighting arms. I don't see that I should change my set up to make your life easier, just like I don't expect you to change your set up. You, and I, havecthis freedom to make choices about how lit up we are, and what we wear. We can control those things but not how others respond to us.

 

[Markymark]

Can't you see the irony of wanting to dictate what I wear in order to give you the freedom to wear what you want?

Also for the record, I have one light front and back, I wear a yellow jersey, and bibs with reflective stripes on them. I'm hardly taking part in a lighting arms. I don't see that I should change my set up to make your life easier, just like I don't expect you to change your set up. You, and I, havecthis freedom to make choices about how lit up we are, and what we wear. We can control those things but not how others respond to us.

Until pricks start stopping people in the street to tell them what to wear.

 

[JoshM]

Until pricks start stopping people in the street to tell them what to wear.

It was the no lights the OP mentioned that made me suggest stopping to them. Especially given the description of the road which I picture to be unlit and dark.

 

[winjim]

The other thing I noticed was how impatient the motorists where behind him waiting for the opertunity to over take. The amount of close passes he had would of left me doing my nut. It was certainly not my idea of safe cycling.

Driving. It's unsafe driving you're describing.

You mention the traffic was slowing for the cyclist. So the drivers must have been aware of him. So he must have been visible. So how would increasing his visibility help? From your description of the road I'm guessing it's NSL so I would suggest that the cause of the close passes is not the visibility of the cyclist, but rather the drivers' frustration at having to slow down for him. Not much he can do about that really. Having said that, in those conditions, and having seen reports of fatalities in what sound like similar circumstances, even I might be tempted to put a rear light on.

"10 miles from anywhere"? That's probably why he was riding his bike, he wanted to get somewhere about 10 miles away.

 

[mjr]

It was the no lights the OP mentioned that made me suggest stopping to them. Especially given the description of the road which I picture to be unlit and dark.

The description of the sky as "overcast" made me picture it as daytime, so no lights are required and nor should they be.

 

[mjr]

[QUOTE 4674235, member: 9609"]Also bright lights and hiviz can be a real courtesy to drivers who are trying their best to drive well[/QUOTE]
Not really - drivers who are really trying their best to drive well will be looking in such a way that they see the cyclist at the earliest opportunity. Unnecessary bright lights and shoot encourages the bad motorists to drive expecting to stop only if they see an obstruction, rather than to drive so they can stop comfortably within what they can see to be clear.

[QUOTE 4674235, member: 9609"]Here is a picture I took a little while ago, this cyclist was obvious from nearly a mile away.[/QUOTE]
Maybe the photo processing has eaten them? The most obvious things in that picture are the nearest group of sheep, the small dark object (a small tree?) in the middle of the field behind them, the red bus-shaped object above the sheep, the white houses against the dark hedge and the blue sky. It's all about contrast... Was the cyclist wearing green-yellow hi-vis? The photo processing has probably blurred it into the green fields, like most people's eyesight will.

 

[Reynard]

There's a big house behind trees almost bang in the middle of the frame. House has two chimney stacks, one at each gable end. The cyclist is a bright yellow dot just above the rightmost chimney stack at the junction between the brown-y green-y horizontal patch and the huge green field above.

 

[growingvegetables]

[QUOTE 4674235, member: 9609"]It may help with the drivers who are not paying that much attention,
View attachment 336823 [/QUOTE]
Ummm - cyclist in black, stands out against a green field? To be honest, I first noticed the sheep and what they were doing around the gorse (?) bush. Took a while to spot the cyclist (if in fact I hvae done so!)