Annoying shifting problem. Any ideas?

[Globalti]

Does this cassette look worn to you?

Ultegra 10 speed on Roubaix SL4 with internal frame cabling and "hidden cables" on the bars.

Here's the problem: the shifting on Ultegra "hidden cable" shifters is pretty poor. Mine work acceptably as long as the cable outer at the derailleur is brand new but after 100 miles or so it all goes to pot. I'm using Shimano inner cable and there seems to be no performance difference between Shimano outer and Jagwire outer. I change the outer cable often, always grind the ends flat, everything is clean and correctly adjusted yet after a couple of rides, I'm having to over-shift to get the chain to move up the cassette and sometimes it's sluggish dropping down. It's worse on this bike than the previous bike, which had the same Ultegra hidden cable shifters but exterior cables on the frame. It's driving me mad, so much that (shudder) I'm even considering handing the bike to a shop mechanic to see if I'm doing something wrong.

The chain is almost new and here's a pic of the cassette. Could tooth wear be affecting shifting? Even if it's worn, that wouldn't explain why the shifting starts good with a new cable outer but all goes to pot after 100 miles or so.

Any ideas?

 

[Roadrider48]

Your parsnips are out of date

 

[young Ed]

Your parsnips are out of date

???

cassette looks slightly worn on 2 biggest rings but not too bad
grit/dirt/dust getting into the outer somewhere affecting shifting? dab of Vaseline or so should sort that
have you tried peeling back the rubber the hood/shifter and cleaning out in their? someone else on here had very very hard and near on impossible shifting and peeled back the rubber and sprayed some wd40 like stuff in their and the next day it was great! i think it might have been @SatNavSaysStraightOn

is the front shifting internal routed and ultegra shifter and derailleur? does it have any problems?
have you got a turbo to test stuff on?
Cheers Ed

 

[Roadrider48]

???

cassette looks slightly worn on 2 biggest rings but not too bad
grit/dirt/dust getting into the outer somewhere affecting shifting? dab of Vaseline or so should sort that
have you tried peeling back the rubber the hood/shifter and cleaning out in their? someone else on here had very very hard and near on impossible shifting and peeled back the rubber and sprayed some wd40 like stuff in their and the next day it was great! i think it might have been @SatNavSaysStraightOn

is the front shifting internal routed and ultegra shifter and derailleur? does it have any problems?
have you got a turbo to test stuff on?
Cheers Ed

The bag behind the cassette.

 

[R600]

i would take the bike to your LBS and get them to check the rear gear hanger to check it is in line. i got a brand new winter frame but couldn't get any good adjustment on the gears turned out the rear hanger was out of line.

 

[Pikey]

Had a similar thing on a bike I built because I set the rear mech up with too much distance between the guide jockey and the rear sprockets, so the chain flexes during the shift rather than move up or down the block crisply.

Might be worth a punt.

 

[Globalti]

Both good suggestions thanks and I will check tonight.

Still doesn't explain why the shifting starts out good after a new cable outer but deteriorates so fast.

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

The shifting on mine was OK after looking at the cable, moving the cable around etc but would the deteriorate. Each time I looked at the issues, they would easy/disappear for a few hours of riding and then return (so usually within the next ride for me.) I did eventually track the skipping issues down to being the shifter - the larger tooth to smaller tooth button was getting really stiff periodically and eventually got to the point where I could not change gear at all without stopping to use brute force and two hands.. Desperation before LBS had me spraying it with WD40 which instantly eased (but did not totally resolve) the situation and overnight this worked miracles, resolving the situation completely. Button is now featherlight and still good and gear changes are back to their usual with no skipping - I have covered +20 hours of riding since. However, @young Ed, I don't think our bikes really compare (bottom end of market to something significantly very much higher up the market) and I suspect that @Globalti probably does not want to resort to a can of WD40!

 

[Globalti]

The shifters are only 9 months old so I doubt they need lubricating. My neighbour has got an alignment checker so he's coming round tonight.

 

[Globalti]

Here's the result of tonight's fettling: the derailleur was indeed out by a couple of degrees as the gauge was about 12mm out from the rim when at 12.00 having been set against the rim at 6.00. There were signs of cosmetic damage on the derailleur from where the bike got blown over by wind. The B screw was screwed about half in so I unscrewed it almost all the way. The result? Crisper more accurate shifting; now time will tell if it stays that way.

 

[Globalti]

Had a similar thing on a bike I built because I set the rear mech up with too much distance between the guide jockey and the rear sprockets, so the chain flexes during the shift rather than move up or down the block crisply.

I've just had a lightbulb moment and it's thanks to this post by Pikey really.

I fitted a Shimano inner cable and following the advice above, adjusted the B screw. This improved the shifting a bit. Then I discovered that the derailleur hanger was slightly bent due to the bike having been blown over by the wind. I'm never happy bending a hanger, even very slightly, so I bent it straight (more improvement) and decided to buy a new one, just in case. I won't bore you with the saga of how my LBS messed around with this but eventually they got the right part, a REV4 ROAD 9890-4224 hanger.

However the new hanger looked too short against the photo I had on my phone (very helpful to have this in the LBS) so the first thing I did on arriving home was to compare it with the hanger on the bike and yes, that one is about 5mm longer.

This got me thinking..... it's complicated but stay with me.....

Originally I had a 2013 Roubaix Comp, equipped with Ultegra 6700. Fine bike but I wanted more so last Autumn with my long-service cheque I bought a Roubaix SL4 Sport, the one in matt grey with red trim, which came equipped with 105 and a 11-30 cassette, for which they had fitted a longer cage derailleur. I swopped all the kit except the cranksets between the bikes, ending up with a tasty SL4 equipped with Ultegra and a carbon FSA crankset I bought off the web. (The SL4 has BB30) My son got the 2013 Comp equipped with Ultegra cranks,105 kit and the 11-30 cassette and long cage derailleur. We needed to tighten the B screw quite a long way in to get good clearance between the jockey wheel and the 30 cog but still the penny didn't drop.

Then last night I had the lightbulb moment when I realised my mistake: the 2014 SL4 Sport came with the long cage derailleur AND a longer hanger! This meant I had been running the short cage Ultegra derailleur and gears on the longer hanger used for the 105 long cage! This would explain why we needed to screw the B screw right in on the older 2013 bike and right out on the SL4.

I should have swopped the hangers over when I swopped the derailleurs!

So now I need to fit the new short hanger to the SL4 so as to bring that jockey wheel closer to the cassette and, hopefully, improve the shifting still further. No time to do it this morning but I will this evening and report back tomorrow. I will also transfer the longer hanger over to my son's bike and see if that moves the jockey wheel further from the cassette and makes the gears less noisy.

D'Oh!

 

[Pikey]

I've just had a lightbulb moment and it's thanks to this post by Pikey really.

I fitted a Shimano inner cable and following the advice above, adjusted the B screw. This improved the shifting a bit. Then I discovered that the derailleur hanger was slightly bent due to the bike having been blown over by the wind. I'm never happy bending a hanger, even very slightly, so I bent it straight (more improvement) and decided to buy a new one, just in case. I won't bore you with the saga of how my LBS messed around with this but eventually they got the right part, a REV4 ROAD 9890-4224 hanger.

However the new hanger looked too short against the photo I had on my phone (very helpful to have this in the LBS) so the first thing I did on arriving home was to compare it with the hanger on the bike and yes, that one is about 5mm longer.

This got me thinking..... it's complicated but stay with me.....

Originally I had a 2013 Roubaix Comp, equipped with Ultegra 6700. Fine bike but I wanted more so last Autumn with my long-service cheque I bought a Roubaix SL4 Sport, the one in matt grey with red trim, which came equipped with 105 and a 11-30 cassette, for which they had fitted a longer cage derailleur. I swopped all the kit except the cranksets between the bikes, ending up with a tasty SL4 equipped with Ultegra and a carbon FSA crankset I bought off the web. (The SL4 has BB30) My son got the 2013 Comp equipped with Ultegra cranks,105 kit and the 11-30 cassette and long cage derailleur. We needed to tighten the B screw quite a long way in to get good clearance between the jockey wheel and the 30 cog but still the penny didn't drop.

Then last night I had the lightbulb moment when I realised my mistake: the 2014 SL4 Sport came with the long cage derailleur AND a longer hanger! This meant I had been running the short cage Ultegra derailleur and gears on the longer hanger used for the 105 long cage! This would explain why we needed to screw the B screw right in on the older 2013 bike and right out on the SL4.
I should have swopped the hangers over when I swopped the derailleurs!

So now I need to fit the new short hanger to the SL4 so as to bring that jockey wheel closer to the cassette and, hopefully, improve the shifting still further. No time to do it this morning but I will this evening and report back tomorrow. I will also transfer the longer hanger over to my son's bike and see if that moves the jockey wheel further from the cassette and makes the gears less noisy.

D'Oh!

Glad to be of service.

I was half cut when I posted that too!